Seating Depth And Case Expansion Change During Production

[6Gears1Speed]

On my Loadmaster I set my seating depth and mouth expansion and do a few empty test loads that check out fine. Once I start production it changes. The expansion disappears and the seating depth changes. If I set the depth to 1.125 they come out as 1.130. What was a good mouth expansion changes to no expansion at all. It seems to be related to when I have shells in all five stations like something is preventing the plate from going all the way up. I don't see any dies hitting the shell plate so that's not it and I can feel that I have extended the ram as far as it will go when I push the arm down.

Have any of you encountered this and know what's wrong?

I'm getting real close to putting this thing in the want ads and going back to my classic turret press. I'm spending more time on setup and debugging than actually making ammo. The turret press isn't as fast but it's a simple design and works fine every time with no frustrating setup issues.

[Fyodor]

Always set up a press with cases in all stations. The shellplate and the turret both have some play.

What pushes the shellplate down is not the die face, it's the case that is pushed down by the die.

[6Gears1Speed]

OK. With the turret press I only had to worry about one station at a time so this never came up. What you're saying assumes there's some slack in the system somewhere but I'm not sure where that slack is. If I have one shell in place and move the arm all the way down (ram all the way up) and get one setting, then insert all five shells and move the arm all the way down it theoretically shouldn't change any of the settings unless something gives way to the added pressure.

[Fyodor]

Install a shellplate and a turret, and wiggle them a bit by hand. You'll experience some slack in the shellplate, and some more slack in the turret. These aren't critical, since when your shellplate is full, they all end up pushed in the same way with every stroke, which eliminates the effects. Repeatability is more important that absolute accuracy when trying to achieve minimum tolerances in the end product. This is the most common misconception among Lee bashers. But that means, that you have to set up the system the same way you use it: with all stations working. For me it doesn't matter, because I don't need high precision ammo, but I know guys who use the first and last few cartridges out of every batch for training only, or even pull them apart.

[Steve]

For more consistent OAL and operation I setup my Loadmasters in the following way.

The dies in station 1,2, and 4 are tight against the shell plate when the ram is raised. This preloads the ram and ensures it is evenly loaded. (Helps make OAL consistent.) This has it setting like a 3 legged stool, same pressure on each leg, keeps the shell plate level and closed on all 3 points.

I would suggest the following for you.

Station 1 - Size die with snug shell plate contact.
Station 2 - Any die screwed down to snug shell plate contact.
Station 4 - Bullet seating die that does not crimp, screwed in to snug shell plate contact.
(Redding Pro seating die does this, or ream out the Lee seating die crimp ring.)
Station 5 - Crimp die.

[6Gears1Speed]

Sorry I hope you didn't think I was Lee bashing. I think it's good equipment and have told people that the bashing is unfounded. I think it's related to me being used to the turret press and this one is different and more complex. After reading that I should set and test the settings with all five stations occupied it made sense and in hindsight I should have known that. I don't mind the OAL being off by a hair between cartridges or the load being off by a few flakes up or down. I'm not a precision shooter. I just couldn't figure out where the slack is based on the ram being fully extended in both cases.

[Steve]

I run mostly range brass. Some I feel push pretty hard into the size die. If the ram were not preloaded in the closed position, (the way mine was when I first tried the Loadmaster) the OAL would be different by a greater amount on the cartridge that was in the seating die.

[6Gears1Speed]

For more consistent OAL and operation I setup my Loadmasters in the following way.

The dies in station 1,2, and 4 are tight against the shell plate when the ram is raised. This preloads the ram and ensures it is evenly loaded. (Helps make OAL consistent.) This has it setting like a 3 legged stool, same pressure on each leg, keeps the shell plate level and closed on all 3 points.

I would suggest the following for you.

Station 1 - Size die with snug shell plate contact.
Station 2 - Any die screwed down to snug shell plate contact.
Station 4 - Bullet seating die that does not crimp, screwed in to snug shell plate contact.
(Redding Pro seating die does this, or ream out the Lee seating die crimp ring.)
Station 5 - Crimp die.

This makes sense. I'm starting to think that Lee needs to revisit their instructions for the die sets. If I remember reading the instructions correctly only one die is set to just touch the plate and the others are to be backed out. I like your instructions better...

[Patriot007]

On my Loadmaster I set my seating depth and mouth expansion and do a few empty test loads that check out fine. Once I start production it changes. The expansion disappears and the seating depth changes. If I set the depth to 1.125 they come out as 1.130. What was a good mouth expansion changes to no expansion at all. It seems to be related to when I have shells in all five stations like something is preventing the plate from going all the way up. I don't see any dies hitting the shell plate so that's not it and I can feel that I have extended the ram as far as it will go when I push the arm down.

Have any of you encountered this and know what's wrong?

I'm getting real close to putting this thing in the want ads and going back to my classic turret press. I'm spending more time on setup and debugging than actually making ammo. The turret press isn't as fast but it's a simple design and works fine every time with no frustrating setup issues.

Hi I had my LM now for 3 months, and I am new also to reloading, I'm having the same problem as You are.
Setting up with all 5 stations loaded does help some. There is a link in Innovative Products at the bottom of the forum index page that has a link to Mikes Reloading bench. He has a MOD solution to yours and mine problems, One, a new turret that he's made and second, a plate that locks down the turret. He has a video and a tutorial on our problems. I haven't ordered mine yet, <Still recouping from Christmas> but in two weeks I'm ordering both items. I sub jest you check him out. Here's his link. I'll post on the out come of my COAL problem once I have them in my procession.

http://www.mikesreloadingbench.com/

Have a safe one.

[Fyodor]

Actually I'm not totally convinced of this mod. It seems to cure the symptoms without eliminating the problem. And it does immensely slow down caliber change. Last but not lest it won't help with expanding, because shellplate contact is shellplate contact, and it doesn't matter if the turret is lifted by a minimal amount. Because the die still is in contact with the shellplate. By holding down the turret this will only happen by a fraction of an inch earlier.

I don't have a LoadMaster, but Mike's mods to me look a bit like solving problems that aren't really there by throwing money at them. Sorry, just my opinion.