bismuth

[mt_sourdough]

Anybody here have any experience using a bismuth/tin alloy?
I am wondering, because there are some re-introduced condors up the road a spell. If some folk got their way, they will use those condors as a Trojan horse to get a ban on led hunting bullets in these parts. At this point, AZ game and fish is imposing a voluntary lead free bullet policy in the state, but they are being pressured to make the lead free bullet policy mandatory.
I have started some early testing with the Barnes XPB 225gr 44 cal bullets in my 444, but I am wondering if cast bismuth/tin alloy bullets might offer more ideal terminal performance from a 444.

[RBHarter]

I can't speak for the current alloy . I do know that the early shot alloy would often crush up and leave,20% or so in the wads. I understand that w/upward of 20% tin the bismuth deforms as shot and that ,that is the current shot alloy. I've heard that the bullets can break-up at short range,particularly long bullets.

[Ranch Dog]

What exactly are the current lead free fishing sinkers made of?

[mt_sourdough]

What exactly are the current lead free fishing sinkers made of?

I am not sure, but I doubt it is bismuth as the price for bismuth is $20 a pound at Rotometals. Rotometals says that is a bargain price for their lead-free bullet alloy (bismuth/tin) and they are keeping the price low to get people to experiment with it. That means one can expect future prices to be well over $20 per pound. It does not make it any more cost effective than Barnes $1 per bullet for the 225 XPB, but I want to know if the terminal performance of the bismuth is similar to lead alloy and how it compares to the XPB bullet.
I guess I need to just go ahead and order a couple of pounds and test it in a RD432-265 bullet mold.

[Ranch Dog]

It would make a good project for the summer.

[mt_sourdough]

When I get some bismuth, I will cast some up for early testing. Right from the start, I am going to shoot them into some jugs. There is no point in doing load development or any other stuff until I am satisfied with terminal performance. That's because I am not looking for a lead free option for the range, I am looking for a lead free option for the field.
Understand, I really do not want to have a lead free option, but there may be a time coming when I won't have a choice. I do not want to be caught with my pants down, so I want to figure this out now.

[Ranch Dog]

When I get some bismuth, I will cast some up for early testing. Right from the start, I am going to shoot them into some jugs. There is no point in doing load development or any other stuff until I am satisfied with terminal performance. That's because I am not looking for a lead free option for the range, I am looking for a lead free option for the field.
Understand, I really do not want to have a lead free option, but there may be a time coming when I won't have a choice. I do not want to be caught with my pants down, so I want to figure this out now.

Sounds like a great plan!

[Zippidydoodah]

Remember the carnival shooting galleries, they used a frangible cheap bullet that was probably clay and some metal powder molded or bonded somehow cheaply. There are all sorts of powdered metals that companies process (press) into sintered shapes and use for precision bearings, etc. they can use "pill-style" presses to rapidly make precision parts under extreme pressure. My recollection is 20-50000 psi and then can be fired to get higher pressures. I realize we want the bullet to be heavy like lead or bismuth , but Barnes started out with copper and made them longer to make up the same weight and gained ballistic ally and has controlled expansion. Dies would be expensive but could probably do it in Corbin swage equipment and then heat treat the bullet to desired psi.
1500 degree oven or so. It would be cost prohibitive for us but I'm sure Hornady or the others have looked into it. For practice I have seen frangible bullets on the market but never bought or fired any. Anybody have any recent activity with these bullets?

[mikld]

Lead free sinkers I've seen are tungsten. Tungsten is pretty hard and costly (I saw some 1/4 oz. sinkers for about $1.00 each...). Not sure about using it for bullets.

[mt_sourdough]

I ordered 5 pounds of the bullet casting bismuth alloy from Rotometals. $100 for a partial fill of my lead furnace. These wont replace lead bullets for everyday shooting, but when law demands for hunting , I am looking for an alternative to lead in my 444. I am also working with the Barnes 225 XPB, doing terminal ballistics testing and trying to get the most velocity that I can with that bullet. Plus, I plan to try to bond some Lead-free solder into the cavity on some of these Barnes XPB bullets, filling the cavity and hopefully slowing expansion.