Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
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Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
With my Collet die issues solved, I wanted to get back to my Rem 600.
This rifle has been driving me nuts for seven years. Every time I start working on it, I give up in frustration. Not with the shooting or accuracy, but trying to put a load together for the confines of its chamber. The rifle has a SAAMI spec chamber, but he variety of jacketed and cast bullets I've tried require that the case be cut way back, the COAL so short that the Lee Bullet Seating die cannot seat the bullet. As a note, I have had the same issue with several 35 Rem rifles such as the Savage 170. I cut my teeth on Marlins, and they have a generous throat to aid chambering. I need a better bullet than what I have on hand.
So I got to thinking about this rifle and the cartridge a bit deeper. Remington designed the cartridge and chamber, of course, and it was specifically designed around their 200-grain bullet. I would bet anything that the 600 was blessed with this matched fit of the chamber to factory ammo. The bullet used was the #2800, 200-grain RN Core-Lokt. Hmmm, unfortunately, that bullet has been unavailable as a component for a long time. To add insult to injury, I had to bags (250 count) of bulk bullets that I sold over a decade ago.
Here is the Core-Lokt.
The closest alternative might be the Sierra Game King, but they come at a price.
I searched my leftover ammo to see if I could come up with an example of #2800 to see if I could check the throat/leade fit. I was coming up with nothing, and then I remembered a fellow had given me three rounds of Buffalo Bore ammunition that he wanted pressure tested. He sold the rifle, so the rounds of ammunition have been just sitting there for 20 years. When I found them, there was no doubt it was a 200-grain Core-Lokt (king's crown of lead).
I put together a dummy cartridge, and it gave me a very usable COAL with a 1.920" case (spec). The bore contact with the bullet was a 2.515".
Now came the chore of finding the Remington #2800. I googled the bullet, and the opening results did not yield anything, but down some pages, a return was for Duck Creek Sporting Goods that had them in stock. Yeah, right. Well, I was wrong as they were on the ranch three days later. It seems that there is a distributor, Black Hills Shooting Supplies, that is having several older offerings from several manufacturers ordered in bulk and then made available to their retailers.
So with bullets on hand, I got a bit detailed in my work before I start sending bullets downrange. I wanted to measure out the #2800 carefully and then make sure that the results mirrored what I found with the single cartridge above.
I enjoy this work on my projects only, as it can be very time-consuming. Tom Myers', a member here, Cast Bullet Design software, makes it possible.
Here is the bullet.
Here is the fit. At a COAL of 2.505," the bullet is just off metal, confirming that my dummy cartridge is not a fluke.
So from here, it is off to the loading bench today. I plan to load this bugger to 358 Win pressures as the 600 is a stout rifle.
This rifle has been driving me nuts for seven years. Every time I start working on it, I give up in frustration. Not with the shooting or accuracy, but trying to put a load together for the confines of its chamber. The rifle has a SAAMI spec chamber, but he variety of jacketed and cast bullets I've tried require that the case be cut way back, the COAL so short that the Lee Bullet Seating die cannot seat the bullet. As a note, I have had the same issue with several 35 Rem rifles such as the Savage 170. I cut my teeth on Marlins, and they have a generous throat to aid chambering. I need a better bullet than what I have on hand.
So I got to thinking about this rifle and the cartridge a bit deeper. Remington designed the cartridge and chamber, of course, and it was specifically designed around their 200-grain bullet. I would bet anything that the 600 was blessed with this matched fit of the chamber to factory ammo. The bullet used was the #2800, 200-grain RN Core-Lokt. Hmmm, unfortunately, that bullet has been unavailable as a component for a long time. To add insult to injury, I had to bags (250 count) of bulk bullets that I sold over a decade ago.
Here is the Core-Lokt.
The closest alternative might be the Sierra Game King, but they come at a price.
I searched my leftover ammo to see if I could come up with an example of #2800 to see if I could check the throat/leade fit. I was coming up with nothing, and then I remembered a fellow had given me three rounds of Buffalo Bore ammunition that he wanted pressure tested. He sold the rifle, so the rounds of ammunition have been just sitting there for 20 years. When I found them, there was no doubt it was a 200-grain Core-Lokt (king's crown of lead).
I put together a dummy cartridge, and it gave me a very usable COAL with a 1.920" case (spec). The bore contact with the bullet was a 2.515".
Now came the chore of finding the Remington #2800. I googled the bullet, and the opening results did not yield anything, but down some pages, a return was for Duck Creek Sporting Goods that had them in stock. Yeah, right. Well, I was wrong as they were on the ranch three days later. It seems that there is a distributor, Black Hills Shooting Supplies, that is having several older offerings from several manufacturers ordered in bulk and then made available to their retailers.
So with bullets on hand, I got a bit detailed in my work before I start sending bullets downrange. I wanted to measure out the #2800 carefully and then make sure that the results mirrored what I found with the single cartridge above.
I enjoy this work on my projects only, as it can be very time-consuming. Tom Myers', a member here, Cast Bullet Design software, makes it possible.
Here is the bullet.
Here is the fit. At a COAL of 2.505," the bullet is just off metal, confirming that my dummy cartridge is not a fluke.
So from here, it is off to the loading bench today. I plan to load this bugger to 358 Win pressures as the 600 is a stout rifle.
Michael
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
Have you considered reaming the throat to match your Marlins? It would open up a lot more bullet choices.
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
No, rifle is too valuable to mess with.klr wrote:Have you considered reaming the throat to match your Marlins? It would open up a lot more bullet choices.
Michael
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
Should be able to use Contender data in that rifle w/o issue .
(Mentioned for those not aware that the 600 series Rem rifle are essentially a small ring 98' Mauser and we'll capable of management of 50kpsi ammo)
(Mentioned for those not aware that the 600 series Rem rifle are essentially a small ring 98' Mauser and we'll capable of management of 50kpsi ammo)
Just a Red neck,White boy, Blue blood American.....
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
I have nothing with which to compare my to 760 Remington in 35 Rem. I have always used a 205 grain hard cast flat point (25 Brinell) in this rifle. New Remington cases are 1.907. The 760 pump action does not have a lot of chambering torque but I have never had any issues with this combination. The bullet pushed by 36.5 grains of IMR 3031 yields about 2000 FPS and kills reliably out to about 150 yards but slows down fast and has a pretty arched trajectory. Sighted in at a little over 2" at 50 it is about .5 inches low at 150.
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
I'm floored...and happy. It's the first time I remember RD saying he'd not modify a gun due to value.Ranch Dog wrote:No, rifle is too valuable to mess with.klr wrote:Have you considered reaming the throat to match your Marlins? It would open up a lot more bullet choices.
Look, we all have different ideas and purposes. To know that RD cares about value just once makes me smile. My stupid ideals have kept me from having more firearms than I do because of all my rules. I have firearms I've spent more on mods than the base gun but my traditional caliber stuff is all unmolested vintage by one definition or another. Takes a while to find a three year range correct barrel length model for a face to face cash deal but it's my thing. Y'all do yours.
(just don't ask me to like laminate plywood stocks, stainless steel lever guns, big loops, 16" barreled levers, drilled waffles, converted Old Model Rugers, barrel porting, over-scoped .22's, or Glocks)
__________________________________________________________________________________________
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from goin' insane.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from goin' insane.
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
Like your comments GG... 3,020 of them made 50 years ago.
Michael
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
I have "improved" two items on the rifle. Over the year the nylon rib and trigger guard plate would warp
An outfit, Heritage Arms, offered an aluminium rib and a steel plate. Those two items were replaced.
It took a while, but I found a new Redfield Jr scout base. This base allows the scope to be removed, yet return to zero when replace. The base has an adjustable rear sight regulated for the Remington front sight.
Ad indicates the standard rifles were $100. Both the 6mm Rem and 308 Win were favorites in South Texas when I was young.
An outfit, Heritage Arms, offered an aluminium rib and a steel plate. Those two items were replaced.
It took a while, but I found a new Redfield Jr scout base. This base allows the scope to be removed, yet return to zero when replace. The base has an adjustable rear sight regulated for the Remington front sight.
Ad indicates the standard rifles were $100. Both the 6mm Rem and 308 Win were favorites in South Texas when I was young.
Michael
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
GasGuzzler wrote:
I'm floored...and happy. It's the first time I remember RD saying he'd not modify a gun due to value.
Yea, but just sneak a throating reamer in there and nobody would know....
Believe it or not I have a Swedish Mauser that I won't modify. And a H&R 999.
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Re: Remington 600 ~ 35 Rem Making Me Crazy!
Sorry I missed your reply. It would be interesting to compare chamber casts of the 600 & 760. I wonder if a bit more throat was used with the 760 to ensure positive chambering? I have the Lee C358-200-RF and my TLC359-190-RF, and with both sized down to .357", I cannot get the cartridge OAL within a ¼" of 2.50". Honestly, I have the Marlin 336D and Savage 170 shooting cast, but I want more with this rifle. A cast bullet will not survive the pressures that I want to shoot at (358 Win performance).Macd wrote:I have nothing with which to compare my to 760 Remington in 35 Rem. I have always used a 205 grain hard cast flat point (25 Brinell) in this rifle. New Remington cases are 1.907. The 760 pump action does not have a lot of chambering torque but I have never had any issues with this combination. The bullet pushed by 36.5 grains of IMR 3031 yields about 2000 FPS and kills reliably out to about 150 yards but slows down fast and has a pretty arched trajectory. Sighted in at a little over 2" at 50 it is about .5 inches low at 150.
Thanks, RB. I'm a LoadData subscriber, here is what they have for my choice of H-335.RBHarter wrote:Should be able to use Contender data in that rifle w/o issue .
(Mentioned for those not aware that the 600 series Rem rifle are essentially a small ring 98' Mauser and we'll capable of management of 50kpsi ammo)
[mod="Ranch Dog"]Data only valid for Remington Models 600 and 760[/mod] The same bullet and powder choice with the 358 Win, the performance matches. The difference is that with the 358's larger case, the cartridge needs 5.5-grains more powder to make it happen.
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Michael