Lee Loader

I have Lee's post-sizing die (why keep trying to differentiate the rifle and pistol dies) in .357, .45 Colt, 9X19, 45 AUTO, .30-30, 5.56X45, 7.62X39, 300BLK ... everything but .32-20.

GasGuzzler wrote:"why keep trying to differentiate the rifle and pistol dies"

Because they are totally different dies.

I order 3 collet style crimp dies. The 2 for 44 mag and 45 Colt say on their paper collet style crimp dies. The one for the 38-55 says factory crimp die. Neither of the pistol dies have the carbide ring. Haven't used the 45 die yet but the other 2 work great.

Make smoke,

Ranch Dog wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:"why keep trying to differentiate the rifle and pistol dies"

Because they are totally different dies.

Right.

Point missed due to my poor choice of words. My comment was aimed at myself...meaning I dare not call my dies the wrong name, I'll just call them "post sizing dies". Just use them (any of the variations) or don't and explain WHY.

Every six to eight weeks the subject comes up and instead of empirical evidence to support a yes/no usage the subject always devolves to the story of how they were invented and what they're called. Just for once it would be cool if a topic was about just ONE of the types and why it does or doesn't work for the user. Look above. A die was thrown away and another is threatening to do so but we have no idea what it did or didn't do.

GasGuzzler wrote:Every six to eight weeks the subject comes up and instead of empirical evidence to support a yes/no usage the subject always devolves to the story of how they were invented and what they're called. Just for once it would be cool if a topic was about just ONE of the types and why it does or doesn't work for the user. Look above. A die was thrown away and another is threatening to do so but we have no idea what it did or didn't do.

Well said.

Actually you described the reason some don't like the LCFCD (Lee carbide factory crimp die) by calling it a "post sizing" die. I've had issues with it with 357mag and 44mag when loading cast bullets that are "oversize" to fit the cylinder throats in my revolvers. Using jacketed no problems. Simple math really, my 357mag cast bullets I size to .360 to fit the cylinders as stated and when adding the thickness of the brass (x2) gives a larger number than the diameter of the carbide "ring" in the LFCD. Therefore you actually DO have a post sizing die. By doing such the die will swage the bullet down to that diameter and when the brass case "springs" back a bit (which brass will do) you lose (some) bullet tension and may (will) result in poor accuracy and leading because now you're shooting an "undersized" bullet. I don't have that problem with 45 colt because my cast bullets are sized to .452, throats are .4525 and the bore is .451. The carbide ring in the 45 colt crimp die measured .480 so by adding the .452 plus the brass thickness at .13 X2 =.26 total cartridge diameter is .478. NO post sizing going on there. Folks that have a problem loading jacketed that won't fit in their chamber and then run it through a "post sizing die" and it suddenly fits have a problem somewhere else in their procedure unless the bullet itself is "oversize". Then you're back to the first issue. If no "post sizing " is happening and the carbide factory crimp die is simply crimping then they work great. I have never seen a bad review of the collet crimp die in either handgun or rifle. That is my experience and opinion of the LCFCD.

Okay, why I got it and why it works for me so far. The 38-55 case is a reasonably tall case with fairly thin metal at the case mouth. The difference between enough roll crimp and a crushed case mouth is almost infinitesimal. Cases are just too expensive to waste, FCD (no post sizing) problem solved so far. I have the die adjusted so I can see a slight ring at the case mouth. No set back from recoil or spring compression.

Pretty much the same deal with the 44 mag, but I haven't shot as many of those yet. I have a 45 Colt loading session coming up and I'll find out how well that one works.

Make smoke,

horseman, that's great info. You always make sense out of making sense. Not to sound mean but it seems like your .357 has a problem if it's that fat. If built to spec would the Lee die work?

I'm nowhere near your knowledge or experience level so I'd like to ask what jacketed bullet fits a loose throat where a .360" lead bullet is required? Also, did you know you needed .360" lead when you tried the Lee die?

Here is my take on it, to follow along with Horseman's comments on the Carbide Factory Crimp die. This is not about the Collet Crimp die (which can be for either a revolver or rifle cartridge). Yeah, they make Collet FCDs for revolvers, but they are not included with the die sets.

I solved my Carbide Factory Crimp Die question some years ago for my semi-auto cartridges, simply with measuring tools and a bullet pulling tool. Here are my results. I had posted the image below elsewhere in this forum back when I did the work.



I don't think you can paint a picture of the Carbide Factory Crimp Die being a post bullet sizer when the overall evidence doesn't support it. One case, out of six, in my experience, and that application is well out of the SAAMI spec. The die is a case web post sizer, but that is what it is supposed to be.

Okay, I'm still talking semi-auto cartridges and specifically not semi-auto bottlenecked cartridges. When your bullet size requirements are large enough to exceed the limits of the carbide ring, to meet an over barrel groove diameter, you are probably working your brass too much with the sizing die as well. Remember that a semi-auto cartridge is simply a cylinder, nothing fancy about it. If your groove is fat, so is the web area of your chamber. Believe it or not but the opposite is true as well. If your groove is under spec, so is the web area of your chamber. For this reason, Lee and most other die manufacturers make over and under sizing dies for semi-auto cartridges. Lee's can be found on this page, all they have right now are under spec dies, probably because the over-spec dies tend to be more popular because of the cast bullet shooters.

So, if your barrel requires a fat (or small) bullet, you should probably perform a chamber cast to see how the rest of your chamber measures up. In my case with the 45 Auto, a phone call to Lee secured the over-sized Carbide Sizing Die, and then I asked the fellow about an Over-Sized Carbide Factory Crimp Die that met my web diameter requirements, and they both arrived together.

Horseman hits on the revolver stuff real good. Buy a Collet Factory Crimp Die and be done with it. As a note, the 38 Spl is too short to manipulate the collet, so they don't offer it. I have had Lee make me two Collet dies for the cartridge which is rather simple when the Bottlenecked Cartridge Factory Crimp Die is used. In that die, the collet is inverted and acts against the top of the die body rather than the shell holder.

I settled my nomenclature/description issues with Lee crimp dies; I have 3 "collet crimp" dies and the post sizing die I had now resides in a landfill somewhere. Now I just have "crimp dies"...