Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Discussions covering the components and techniques of reloading for your scattergun; be it buckshot, shot, or slugs.
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larryw
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by larryw »

GasGuzzler wrote:Some day when times allows I'd like to know why the dang things need so many parts inside. I'd rather read it here than someone else's site or book.


Yea, I'd like to know the same ??? Why no stack of stuff in rifle or handgun under
the bullet????
+corn
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

larryw wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:Some day when times allows I'd like to know why the dang things need so many parts inside. I'd rather read it here than someone else's site or book.


Yea, I'd like to know the same ??? Why no stack of stuff in rifle or handgun under
the bullet????
+corn
When you guys figure out how to suspend the shot or slug in position through neck tension, it will be the same.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by GasGuzzler »

Basically folding the end of the "case" over squashes the column together so there cannot be any empty space in there. If there was a shell that was all brass maybe you could leave space?
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

I got tied up spraying food plots almost all day, but that also gave me a lot of time to think about this. I did shoot three rounds where I had trimmed the petals of the column wad back to the ogive.

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The 50-yard group went from Minute of Yardstick to MInute of Rule. I associated the wad with the shot, marked and picked it up after each shot. They probably all landed within a 6" circle at 28-yards. Only one was damaged, and it might represent a flier that otherwise might have tightened up the group. I will never know.

On another forum, a fellow bought my attention to a load page on Ballistic Precision's website. When I opened the link, I had there before, but the visit caused me to think about the 8-segmented star crimp that I was using. Those loads, from Lee Precision, specified a 6-segment star crimp be used. The Load-All II can do either; I had never considered trying the other. The load sheet also identified yet another column wad and the use of Hodgdon's International. I have the powder and called BP and was able to add the column wad to the order I placed yesterday morning.

Funny thing about the powder is that I bought four pounds of it as I thought it Clays because it was once referred to as Internation Clays, and still is. It is nowhere near the straight every day Clays, and Hodgdon changed has even changed the label, but most online stores still refer to it as International Clays. This is a very volatile powder, even more so than Lil'Gun, with little data. I've used a little of it through QuickLoad after some research revealed that it was ADI AS-50N (Australian Defense Industries). The BPI load calls for a shorter column wad, and that makes sense as the 26-grain load is 3.72cc. The 40-grain load of HS-6 I've been using is 2.84cc.

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The only use I've found for it with my 29 different metallic cartridges is the 25 Auto. 4 lbs, consumed 1-grain at a time is like eating a wooly mammoth.

Now, as soon as it is light, I'm gonna be casting slugs.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

I'm surprised that some enterprising reloader hasn't come up with a column wad that mates with the Lee Key and are available in a couple of column heights. It would have to have petals for the bore/groove mating vs. what I've shown as an examples.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by larryw »

Ranch Dog wrote:
larryw wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:Some day when times allows I'd like to know why the dang things need so many parts inside. I'd rather read it here than someone else's site or book.


Yea, I'd like to know the same ??? Why no stack of stuff in rifle or handgun under
the bullet????
+corn
When you guys figure out how to suspend the shot or slug in position through neck tension, it will be the same.
Neck tension, come on RD. we knew that, just wanted to make sure you had it right.. ;)
Hey GG, think he bought it?? ;) ;)
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

More...

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You can buy brass shotgun cases but they are not recommended for smokeless powders, BP only. I'm not sure why but it is not worth the buy-in to me at a dollar a case. You must use reloading dies vs. a shotgun press, the dies are about the cost of the Load-All II. I think you can use the Breech Lock presses without the lock in place.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by horseman »

The more I read on "reloading for shotgun slug accuracy" just confirms that it's not something I'm interested in trying anytime soon, or ever. It appears to be "almost" an exercise in futility and an endeavor only to test one's patience and determination. With that in mind RD, I did see a mention of something that may be of use :lol: and that is to lube the inside of the wad (maybe the slug as well) with graphite powder to help facilitate wad, slug, separation. Same idea as the nitro card under the slug in the wad. Also it would seem a lot of guys are casting and shooting pure and claiming great accuracy. Although with some of the accuracy claims I read I get a mental picture of a fat kid sitting at his computer eating twinkies and drinking Red Bull and telling everyone he bench presses 350lbs, 3 sets at 10 reps. :roll: But I'm rooting for you, and hopefully you'll find success and if you do please post the results. You may change my mind about the process. Maybe. +corn
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

horseman wrote:The more I read on "reloading for shotgun slug accuracy" just confirms that it's not something I'm interested in trying anytime soon, or ever. It appears to be "almost" an exercise in futility and an endeavor only to test one's patience and determination. But I'm rooting for you, and hopefully you'll find success and if you do please post the results. You may change my mind about the process. Maybe. +corn
I'm enjoying the venture. There are times that my metallic reloading isn't stretching my imagination and I get bored.

I might try the graphite on the wads, probably use mica as I have so much of it, but since trimming the petals shorter, all column wads have had their pedals intact downrange. Since the start, I've been using a 20 Gauge .070 Nitro card wad behind the slug. One, two, or three depending on what the stack was.

When I switched to the six segmented star crimp, I noticed that it top unfolded after awhile. The component stack is too high, so I removed one of the two nitro cards behind the slug. Then the star folded inside which means the stack isn't high enough. I pondered that a bit and decided to try something new. I added an orange BPI overshot card wad (.045") between the nose of the slug and the star fold. After the fold and with the clear hull, I could see that the card was drooping where there was no slug contact (you can see how the meplat of the slug indented the orange disk in the image below). So, I carefully added BPI's Buffer until the filler's level was flat across the nose of the slug and then dumped the Buffer in a scale pan and weighed it so that I could use the Safety Disk with the actual reloading run (5.5-grains ~ .83cc).

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It all slid together real quick. I did goof up and use the Load-All II's 8 segmented star folder on one hull... damn it!

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I couldn't get up to the range until right before dark, but when I did, I shot the two six-fold shells first. The load sounded better (good compression of the components), the barrel was cleaner (better gas seal), and the two shots produced a double POI that was very acceptable. Both wads were recovered and looked like they could be used again (I am trimming the petal length to the ogive). Then came the eight-fold shell and it didn't hit the paper, just the greater backing. I think that made a good test of the star fold if nothing else, six-segmented star fold or nothing. I could not find the wad. I'm going to load up another this morning, properly, and see where it hits.

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All that I've written on these pages sounds like a lot of work and it really hasn't been. A lot of thinking maybe, but I can see it moving forward, and I would rather hunt with a reload than the factory ammo. The actual effort of reloading, prepping and completing the load, is ten times faster than metallic reloading.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by horseman »

Interesting on the difference in crimp. I've been loading shot shells for quite awhile but just "regular" stuff. A lot of 7 1/2 shot for bustin' clay birds here at home for fun. All are 8 pt crimp ( I do roll crimp them some times but only because I kinda like doing it) I have a "one man" spring loaded thrower you set then release it off with your foot. A lot of fun but the clay pieces, even the bio-degradable, make a mess in the lower pasture.. :x I have and do load some hunting loads with 4 and 6 shot but there really isn't much bird hunting around here anymore and I really miss that. I'd rather hunt pheasant and grouse than anything else, including big game. But it's been a number of years since that was really plausible here. Never thought much about crimps, but commercial hunting loads do seem to always have a 6pt crimp and the 8pt is generally just for target type ammo. I always thought it was for a "tougher" crimp because of the way hunting rounds may be handled. Hmmmm, hafta' read up on that a bit. Maybe more to it than I thought. I may have to get a Lee slug mold, or maybe just buy some different slugs and give this a try. I'll have to use smooth bores because that's all I have but it may be just what I need to keep me "occupied" this winter season. I probably could be talked into buying a rifle like yours just for fun, then when the "fun" stops I could put it in the safe next to my in-line muzzle loader that hasn't seen the light of day in years. It stopped being "fun" a long time ago... :lol: Not often I read an ongoing process that peaks my interest quite as much as this one has. I'll continue to watch and read of your ongoing "trials and tribulations" +corn ...and the results of course.... +guns

By the way I thought I had a bag of the 12S3 wads from a while back but they turned out to be 12S4's that I used for some "heavy" duck loads in Federal hulls. Those were brutal to shoot in my side by side, (lord help me from hitting both triggers at once :shock: ) they were somewhat better in a pump but not much. No ducks were harmed in the making or testing of these shells....Maybe the crimp? :lol:
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