Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

[Ranch Dog]

So if your need was for, say, 00 buck then this wouldve been much easier?

Yes. I would purchase Ballistic Products Buckshot Manual 4th Edition (download only) or their Coyote Manual (print or download). I purchased their printed Coyote Manual, it was more along the lines of what I was looking for but if you are interested in self defense, the first would be better. Unfortunately, the printed version is out of stock.

About the Load-All II. It is designed around 2¾" shells, but will work with 3". With the shorter length, the press bottoms out against the shell base plate. With the longer, you short stroke the press handle. I don't like that at a bit as you end up being very inconsistent with the stroke at the final stage of closing the star crimp. I cut a PVC collar that slips over the shell so that you can bottom out the press stroke.

Well, yesterday afternoon's range session was absolutely horrible. I shot at 50 yards and groups was not minute of nilgai let alone whitetail. Same with the chronograph results. Lee's data indicates 36.0-grains will produce 1550 FPS, no mention of barrel length, but I only saw 1385 FPS with 37.0. The Marlin Slug Master has a 21" barrel. Not sure what gives with both velocity and accuracy, everything was in the toilet!

I think I ought to scrub the bore as the wad and powder fouling is noticeable.

[GRV01]

RE: working with 3" shells, could one sit the base of the shell in a 1/4" recess drilled in to a board on to which the press is mounted? That should allow one to complete the stroke evenly and consistently, and when it was time to load shorter length shells just put a puck or bushing back in the hole

Just thinking outloud here. Anyway, sorry to hear the trial disnt go well. Has Quickload been any help estimating powder performance?

[Ranch Dog]

About the Load-All II. It is designed around 2¾" shells, but will work with 3". With the shorter length, the press bottoms out against the shell base plate. With the longer, you short stroke the press handle. I don't like that at a bit as you end up being very inconsistent with the stroke at the final stage of closing the star crimp. I cut a PVC collar that slips over the shell so that you can bottom out the press stroke.

I will get you a picture of this as it will best explain it. At station #5, the star crimper is meeting the fold of the hull, so the star crimper inside the tool head is designed to stop about 2.405" off the shell plate base. This tool head extends over the hull so the spacer must fill the gap between the top of the shell plate to the bottom of the tool head.

Well, yesterday afternoon's range session was absolutely horrible. I shot at 50 yards and groups was not minute of nilgai let alone whitetail. Same with the chronograph results. Lee's data indicates 36.0-grains will produce 1550 FPS, no mention of barrel length, but I only saw 1385 FPS with 37.0. The Marlin Slug Master has a 21" barrel. Not sure what gives with both velocity and accuracy, everything was in the toilet!

Okay, I found the 40.0-grain load in the Hodgdon Manual on Loaddata.com. I feel better about using it and will.

Has Quickload been any help estimating powder performance?

QL doesn't do shotshell, but there are a bunch of loads on loaddata.com

Oh, I shot of bags yesterday. My jaw hurts today and I will return to the LeadSled.

[RBHarter]

As to the Lee loader one would need to add a half inch to the side handle rods to accomplish the full stroke stop as the press relies on the fixed base to head relationship for oal and affords no adjustment for length except travel limit control . The spacer RD referred to is a stop collet for the finish crimp "die" .

To go off the books a little bit did you read any of the 12 ga FH done by Ron Hibbel I think he started out in brass cases with a slug seated out like a rifle cartridge using eventually 50 BMG cases with a threaded on rim fitting for 12 ga extractor rim and head dia in a Savage 810 slug gun with a rifled barrel but eventually came back around to a roll crimped conventional slug in a plastic case . He was using the faster rifle powders like data listed for 410 with 4198 but in a 12 ga at something like BP ratios and getting pressure safe 7/8 oz slugs at 2000 fps in rifled barrels shooting 5 shots into true clover leaf groups .

Are your wads suviving the choke ? I have read a bunch on RB but little on slugs . If the RB gets adjusted by the wad in the choke they don't fly for beans the ideal is a tight slip fit through the choke and a radius inside the wad matching the ball . Best yet is of course a naked ball in cylinder bore that touches but doesn't rub . I wonder if the drive key wouldn't respond to a wad change and slower powders .......

[horseman]

Well, yesterday afternoon's range session was absolutely horrible. I shot at 50 yards and groups was not minute of nilgai let alone whitetail. Same with the chronograph results. Lee's data indicates 36.0-grains will produce 1550 FPS, no mention of barrel length, but I only saw 1385 FPS with 37.0. The Marlin Slug Master has a 21" barrel. Not sure what gives with both velocity and accuracy, everything was in the toilet!

I think I ought to scrub the bore as the wad and powder fouling is noticeable.

Pretty much all that I've read on the Lee key slugs was that the 7/8ths oz slugs were more accurate than the 1 oz. Opinion being that it (7/8oz) is better "balanced" with more weight forward. Also a lot of reading on slug guns and shooting them in general. Lot of info out there. Really interesting reading, watched some U-tube videos (I'm glad I don't live "down south" in certain neighborhoods ) plus I was not aware of the different bolt action rifled shot guns that have been offered as I've never had any "use" for one where I live. I did see a Marlin 512 on GunBroker for 240 bucks (actually there were several available near that price) and I almost "pulled the trigger" ( ) but came to my senses just before hitting the key.
I know it's not what you're looking for but did see a couple videos of fella's shooting some factory stuff that was VERY accurate at 100 yds plus with rifles like yours. After seeing that is actually when I went "looking" for one...finding a factory round that shot well and then taking one apart to see how and what may be beneficial. I would think (Captain Obvious here) the wad would be a big factor in accuracy and performance as in a regular load. Keep us informed on your progress, like I said there were several different models of the slug gun available for sale.....

[Macd]

Reading all this with interest. How does a slug gun differ if any from a rifle in terms of things that affect accuracy? I recognize the cartridge is very different of course but the basics of projectile fit and hardness, barrel harmonics and receiver stiffness etc. should apply. Am I wrong?

[mr surveyor]

rifling?

[Ranch Dog]

Dedicated slug guns, especially bolt actions, have more in common with rifles than they do shotguns. No choke, a .719" bore and a .727" groove. Really, not a lot different than the chamber of any straight walled cartridge.



I was able to make a chamber impression by firing a 3" hull in the Marlin. Looks just like the drawing!



I noted earlier in this topic that the Lee design is a sabot. As such, they don't touch the rifling during the journey down the barrel but depend on the wad column to make the necessary contact. I've spent time off and on over the last five years with the slug but have never ended up hunting with it. I've read most that is available on the web and watched every video that I could find on Youtube. Still, my success has been hit and miss but never good enough to hunt with. I have spent more on components in this endeavor than I have with any rifle cartridge. To date, probably about $500.

About the Marlin 512 Slugmaster. At the time it was being produced the Savage 212 had been just introduced. Gun Reports gave the Marlin a higher rating than the Savage. The Marlin ($320 in '05) was second only to the semi-custom Tar-Hunter ($1750 in '05). My Slugmaster is a very nice slug gun.

I'm just in from my range; the Lee is probably not going to work out in the time I have to work with it before the hunt. I need to cast more. I can get it to shoot a heck of a group at 25-yards, but as the wad column departs, all hell breaks loose. Every wad column I've recovered has missing or damaged petals. I've tried three different wads that claim to be replacements for the discontinued Federal 12S3, which a majority of the loads you will find for the Lee slug are based on, plus the 12S3 itself. All have been damaged. In that I've been hot and cold on this, I need to remeasure wad petal thickness to see what the differences are. The new ClayBuster's slug wads are on the way, so those will be added to the mix.

I have plenty of 7/8 ounce slugs but have not worked with them much. I consider them adequate for whitetails or hogs but not the nilgai. Honestly, an ounce at slug velocities is pushing it.

Alas, after today's noontime results, it was 94º horseman, I was disappointed with my minute of yardstick results at 50-yards. I had one of those "gotta be the gun" moments, so I walked back to the house and carried a box of Lightfield Hybrid Elites up to the range, these use a 1 1/8 ounce slug. I've not shot these in the Marlin.



I packed up and went back to the house where I got online and ordered seven boxes (5 rounds). These are slugs, not sabots, lead on rifling contact. The Lee has got to get busy if it wants to go to East Lake!

[Ranch Dog]

In the picture above, the taped over holes are five shots with the discontinued Federal 12S3. Great group! The last three shots with the Lee are using a MEC 12S3 replacement.

The other thing is those eleven shots make about 70 since Saturday or whenever I started on this. Even with the LeadSled, it still delivers a beating. My new smartphone has a protective glass cover over the glass on the phone. It was on the shooting bench when I lit one off, the protective cover shattered.

[Macd]

Would a hollow base slug obturate and give better stabilization. Something similar to the Minnie bullet.