How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
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How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
Long story short - I use a zip-lock bag.
Short story long:
I've been browsing the lube Sub-Forum threads and haven't run across that one yet, but I've tried a bunch of ways and that zip-lock bag just takes the cake whether I'm using 45-45-10 or BLL. Like most here, I started using straight LEE Liquid Alox a long time ago and experienced all the same issues. I wouldn't give up on it though because for a long time, I bought commercial cast for my 45 ACP needs and used LEE's goop on them because the hard lube that came on them was pretty, but worthless.
Using a quart-sized, heavy-duty zip-lock bag, I don't count the bullets, I just make sure I don't fill it over half full with bullets. For half a quart of anything from 30 cal to 44 cal, four quarter-inch diameter drops of 45-45-10 or BLL is enough. I zip the bag up (don't squeeze the air out) and kneed the bag from the bottom, rolling it back and forth between my hands and poking my fingers up into the mass and rolling the whole thing occasionally to get the bullets out of the corners. It's more like a massage than tumbling. I do that until all bullets are glistening - no set time, but it's never for very long. I think a minute at most. I dump them out onto waxed paper, spread them around and walk away.
A bag will last almost indefinitely. The one I am using for BLL is several years old. The one I use for 45-45-10 is only a little over a year old. I heat my bullets AND lube for 45-45-10. I left a batch of bullets on the wood stove too long once and poured them into the bag, drizzled lube, zipped up and proceeded to kneed when I heard bullets falling onto the bench. I had hot bullets, hot lube and molten plastic running between my fingers. Peeling the plastic off my fingers was less painful than peeling it off all the individual bullets. Lesson learned - WARM the bullets, don't "heat" them. I don't wear gloves because if they're too hot to hold in bare hands, they'll melt the bag.
To collect up dried bullets and deposit them into one of my fancy bullet boxes (small plastic coffee cans), I use a rectangle cut out from a flimsy plastic three-ring binder as a bullet scoop. Holding onto one end bends/cups the sheet of plastic to add rigidity, and the scoop end presses flat against the waxed paper. Scoops 'em right up and the scoop end conforms to the opening of the coffee can so I can gently slide the bullets into the can without damaging plain bases. I also made a spent primer diverter out of this same material for my original turret press - to divert them from going everywhere versus going into the spent primer reservoir.
Those cheap folders/binders come in a lot of colors, one of which happens to be a shade of red which is very close to "LEE Red." Coincidentally, the small plastic coffee cans I beg off others also match the general red motif of the bench.
Short story long:
I've been browsing the lube Sub-Forum threads and haven't run across that one yet, but I've tried a bunch of ways and that zip-lock bag just takes the cake whether I'm using 45-45-10 or BLL. Like most here, I started using straight LEE Liquid Alox a long time ago and experienced all the same issues. I wouldn't give up on it though because for a long time, I bought commercial cast for my 45 ACP needs and used LEE's goop on them because the hard lube that came on them was pretty, but worthless.
Using a quart-sized, heavy-duty zip-lock bag, I don't count the bullets, I just make sure I don't fill it over half full with bullets. For half a quart of anything from 30 cal to 44 cal, four quarter-inch diameter drops of 45-45-10 or BLL is enough. I zip the bag up (don't squeeze the air out) and kneed the bag from the bottom, rolling it back and forth between my hands and poking my fingers up into the mass and rolling the whole thing occasionally to get the bullets out of the corners. It's more like a massage than tumbling. I do that until all bullets are glistening - no set time, but it's never for very long. I think a minute at most. I dump them out onto waxed paper, spread them around and walk away.
A bag will last almost indefinitely. The one I am using for BLL is several years old. The one I use for 45-45-10 is only a little over a year old. I heat my bullets AND lube for 45-45-10. I left a batch of bullets on the wood stove too long once and poured them into the bag, drizzled lube, zipped up and proceeded to kneed when I heard bullets falling onto the bench. I had hot bullets, hot lube and molten plastic running between my fingers. Peeling the plastic off my fingers was less painful than peeling it off all the individual bullets. Lesson learned - WARM the bullets, don't "heat" them. I don't wear gloves because if they're too hot to hold in bare hands, they'll melt the bag.
To collect up dried bullets and deposit them into one of my fancy bullet boxes (small plastic coffee cans), I use a rectangle cut out from a flimsy plastic three-ring binder as a bullet scoop. Holding onto one end bends/cups the sheet of plastic to add rigidity, and the scoop end presses flat against the waxed paper. Scoops 'em right up and the scoop end conforms to the opening of the coffee can so I can gently slide the bullets into the can without damaging plain bases. I also made a spent primer diverter out of this same material for my original turret press - to divert them from going everywhere versus going into the spent primer reservoir.
Those cheap folders/binders come in a lot of colors, one of which happens to be a shade of red which is very close to "LEE Red." Coincidentally, the small plastic coffee cans I beg off others also match the general red motif of the bench.
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
I started tumble lubing my cast bullets and soon tried the plastic bag, much like the OP's method, worked well. But for me the major drawback was the lube on the bullet noses. It jes don look rite to me. So I started dip lubing and later found out Ranch Dog also dip lubes. Easy to do, works as well as tumbling, and there's no lube on the nose, for looks and seating...
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
Tell me about dip lubing. Do you still use LLA or some other combination or diluted version. I pan lube some rifle bullets but all my handgun ones are TL designs.mikld wrote:I started tumble lubing my cast bullets and soon tried the plastic bag, much like the OP's method, worked well. But for me the major drawback was the lube on the bullet noses. It jes don look rite to me. So I started dip lubing and later found out Ranch Dog also dip lubes. Easy to do, works as well as tumbling, and there's no lube on the nose, for looks and seating...
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
I use a 16 ounce, screw top beer can (actually a Coors Lite can). A mix of LLA and mineral spirits (about a 40/60 mix). Put 30-40 at a time into the can (.357) or 25-30 (.430), a few drops of the LLA/Mineral Spirit mix - put the lid on and just roll the can around for a few seconds. Dump and stand like little soldiers and repeat. Been using the "seasoned" can for at least 5 years.
I do use the zip-lock bag for lubing brass then needs it. Lee Case Lube cut with alcohol (again about 40/60) in a kitchen spray bottle. Put a batch of empty/prepped cases into the bag and give it 3-4 squirts - close the bag and roll the cases around well for a few seconds. Same thing ... been using the same "well seasoned" zip-lock bag for brass for at least 5 years.
I couldn't do without my can and bag
jd
I do use the zip-lock bag for lubing brass then needs it. Lee Case Lube cut with alcohol (again about 40/60) in a kitchen spray bottle. Put a batch of empty/prepped cases into the bag and give it 3-4 squirts - close the bag and roll the cases around well for a few seconds. Same thing ... been using the same "well seasoned" zip-lock bag for brass for at least 5 years.
I couldn't do without my can and bag
jd
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
I use a Lee sizer can whether I used the sizer or not. It's what the can is for anyway.
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
I only had problems with sticky noses before I stopped using straight LEE Liquid Alox - and it WAS a problem. I had bullets that didn't dry for years unless I stored them in open containers and then it still left them with a weird, almost tacky feel.mikld wrote:.........But for me the major drawback was the lube on the bullet noses........
Once I got the hang of 45-45-10, and later BLL, NO sticky noses. I like coating the noses and all and will tumble bullets once soon after casting even if I don't size them until months later. My "climate-controlled" shop is controlled by Mother Nature herself and I have had bullets get crusty on me. Not often, but often enough that it bugs me.
When I tumble lube, I usually have to leave a note by the ones that have been tumbled once, tumbled twice or not tumbled. I have to smell them to tell whether I've tumbled them. Only when I squeeze the lube bottle a little too hard (do NOT try to clear a lube-booger from the spout by force - warm it more or get a toothpick) can I see a faint bronzish hue to the bullets. I've given different bullets to others to try and they don't believe me they're lubed, so I have to tell them to smell them.
By the way, since I'm still new here, I want to make it clear that I am not trying to sell anyone on the "best" way or to convince anyone they're wrong. Much to the contrary - I like the idea that everyone tries and does everything differently and I like hearing about others' experiences. I respect the experience I read about here and only intend to add mine to the "database." I'm so emphatic in my assertions about lubing this way because it runs counter to all I thought I'd learned early in my casting/reloading/shooting adventures. And, hey, if it helps someone else who IS having a problem, it's one more option to consider.
The fastest I've chronographed them when so-lubed is 1840 avg fps in the 222 and 357 Max. Maybe more - I don't get around to chronographing as often as I should. I have a few rifles I intend to shoot at 2200 and 2400 fps at some point and I'm curious if by then my way won't fail me, so I pay attention to everything everyone else does so I have some options in my back pocket at that point. I have an antique Lyman lubricator/sizer and do still use it sometimes.
Also, "my way" may be failing me on already me on a couple bullets which are surprisingly not shooting as accurately as I'd like in my 18" MGM 357 Mag barrel (1:14") - the LEE 358-125 RF and the trusty ol' 358-158 TLSWC. I think they should be making one-ragged hole at 50 yards, but that's not happening. NO leading but not the accuracy I've seen from them in other carbine barrels. So, no, I'm not done yet but the invisible lube layers are doing well in the 222, 30-30, 44 Special and other 38/357 loads.
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
That's a new one on me and I am intrigued. I hate lubing/wiping bottleneck cases. My 222 (and 257 Roberts, 6.5x55 which I don't get to shoot much) is a bolt-action and I use a LEE Collet Neck Sizer, but my 223 is a Contender Carbine - I need to use a FLR die on that one.mr surveyor wrote:................I do use the zip-lock bag for lubing brass then needs it...........jd
Lubing cases is one of the reasons I don't shoot a few of my rifles much and this trick may just convince me that a Contender barrel in 222 (which I shoot more of than any other bottleneck case) would be a good move.
I do the tedious rag/alcohol cleaning method to "unlube" my lubed cases. How do you clean the one's you've tumbled in a zip-lock bag? Or do you bother?
Ironic - I'm so cheap I use zip-lock bags and coffee cans but it could end up costing me $400 for a new barrel.
I'm dragging my own thread off topic, so if that's undesirable, ignore my query and I'll ask in another thread or PM.
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
GG, Michael,GasGuzzler wrote:I use a Lee sizer can whether I used the sizer or not. It's what the can is for anyway.
Use the LEE sizer can for what - dipping/tumbling? You mean the clear, red die box lid the sizer dies come in?
I do use that complete container attached to the sizer die to collect sized bullets. Haven't found another use for them yet.
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
Dip lubing is just that; dipping the bullet in some liquid lube. I either thin or warm my lube, either 45-45-10 or straight alox. I "discovered" dip lubing many years ago and even though I rarely used too much lube and my bullets did dry, I didn't like "brown noses". I use a shallow pan, but that's not entirely necessary and I grab the bullet by the nose, depending on the bullet with my fingers, needle nose pliers or tweezers, and dip the bullet, base first, in the lube to the crimp groove. I then set the bullets down, base first, on a piece of aluminum foil to dry (I have a bunch of non stick foil I also use for my PC cooking). You may have to experiment with how warm or how much your lube gets thinned, as you don't need much. Depending on ambient temps., I sometimes warm the bullets too. Clean noses, clean seating dies, and looks better...
Depending on the bullet, I often size before I lube, but I use Lee push through dies exclusively. BTW, I have pan lubed tumble lube design bullets many times (I like my Lee T/L 44 cal SWC, but it shoots better, leading free, with C-Red lube).
Depending on the bullet, I often size before I lube, but I use Lee push through dies exclusively. BTW, I have pan lubed tumble lube design bullets many times (I like my Lee T/L 44 cal SWC, but it shoots better, leading free, with C-Red lube).
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Re: How You (Tumble) Lube - Fancy Equipment
I have only one Lee push-through sizer. It's a .358. Since I bought my RCBS Lube machine and built a PID heater controller and plate for it I don't use the push through on the press any longer with the future exception of the .357 Magnum TL mold I bought and haven't yet used. My other TL molds are all GC and I prefer the RCBS machine for that. Lyman or RCBS dies fit, they cost the same or close as Lee sizers, and take up way less space. I do not like the Lee system although I admit it's faster.....unless you count the clean up if you push tradionally lubed bullets through it to size and install GCs.Jeff H wrote:GG, Michael,GasGuzzler wrote:I use a Lee sizer can whether I used the sizer or not. It's what the can is for anyway.
Use the LEE sizer can for what - dipping/tumbling? You mean the clear, red die box lid the sizer dies come in?
I do use that complete container attached to the sizer die to collect sized bullets. Haven't found another use for them yet.
I gave up lubing traditional grooves by any other means than the Lub-A-Matic after two or three very frustrating and messy trips down all avenues named pan or dip. Those did require A LOT of clean up plus all the heating the lube mess and the mess on the dies.
But I still use the can that came with the Lee sizer to tumble finished bullets in BLL even after they've had GCs installed and have been sized and lubed on the RCBS.
Cases: I stand them up in a block and spritz them with a sprayer filled with a mix of rubbing alcohol and Lee case lube. After they're sized they're loaded as is. If I'm picky that day I'll dry tumble them in a vibratory tumbler. Fair warning: This makes lead bullets an "ugly" dull grey color.
The only rifle brass I have that is sized but not loaded at time of sizing is my ongoing LC 5.56X45 pile. Those get batch washed in my el cheapo wet tumble system and stored.
My .222 and 5.56X45 both get JBs anyway. I only cast rifle for .30-30, 7.62X39, 300BLK. Cast for handgun are 9mm, .45ACP, .357M, .45 Colt. That makes a difference as well. I load .32-20 but I have enough bullets for that so haven't bought a mold....and being low pressure they need little care.
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