Starting Up Casting Questions

[JohnnyEnfield]

Hi guys,

I am sure everyone has an opinion and I am not trying to start a fight. I want to start casting my own bullets and have been researching for a while. I think I am going to get the Lee bottom pour 4 - 20 pot and buy some Lyman #2 alloy from Roto Metals. I will probably start with a RN 230 grain .452 bullet mold, maybe a two cavity. I am not sure of the mold yet. Then pan lube to get started.

I think my biggest question is, do any of you think I should start with just a ladle, spoon, dutch oven/cast iron pan over a turkey fryer instead of starting with an electric pot? I already have a turkey fryer and was originally thinking of going that direction. It just seems less controlled and the money I spend on getting started that way could be used to buy 'the inevitable' electric pot. But, it may also help me a lot to learn and know how to do it 'the old fashioned way'. Also, if ever need to make my own ingots I will use the cast iron pot and turkey fryer. As a beginning caster I just want to be careful and choose wisely. If I ladle pour I will get a Lyman ladle, they seem to be better and larger with a nice bottom pour type spout.

Any opinions and suggestions are welcomed. Thank you for your time.

[RBHarter]

I'm a ladle guy but I cast from 62gr 22 up to a 535 gr 45 and a 50 cal Maxi .
I only recently got a production pot to go with a couple of gifted 5# pots . What a difference a good ladle makes over the soup spoon on a broom handle . I've been casting about 10 yr and every up grade has made it easier to cast better bullets .

Getting started I would definitely say start with a 2C but after you get a feel for it get the 6c . It will empty the pot in a hurry but you'll get 3 times as many bullets per pour and spend 1/2 as long casting . For these types bullets , pistol bullets in general , Lee moulds are good and plenty good enough for mass production . If you think you'll want to use the cal/cartridge for something other than paper work I'd recommend trying a TC or RNFP going in ......says the guy with like 9 45 cal moulds .......

[JohnnyEnfield]

So the dutch oven over the turkey fryer would be a good place to start. I have been avoiding casting because of all the up front costs and trying not to have 'a ton more stuff' to store and find places for. reloading has been so much fun and I have learned so much, the next logical thing for me is to cast. But I want good results. So I was not sure if the bullets will be 'good enough' when ladle cast from a fire melted alloy. It seems like it will work. I am also not looking to make thousands of bullets either. I think I mostly like the idea of being self sufficient. Thanks for the reply. Very nice food for thought.

[farmerjim]

There are a lot of people selling range led and clip on wheel weights on line. You can add a bit of tin to these to make your own alloy that is half the price of #2 from roto metals. I use a bottom pour for the speed but started out with a lyman ladle 50 years ago. you could get all the wheel weights you wanted for $0.05 a pound back then, and buy pure lead and tin from the scrap yards for not much more. I started with 2 cavity molds, and returned them to the store for credit on 4 cavity molds a week later. Watch some of the youtube videos on casting. There was no such thing when I started, and nobody around me new how to cast. It was all out of books. One thing that will help is to get an electric hotplate with a solid top, or one with coils and put an old saw blade on top to spread the heat. You can get the mold up to temp on this and start with good bullets the first pour. The electric pot is easier to work with than the turkey fryer, but the fryer will work fine.

[Ranch Dog]

I would suggest the Pro 4-20 from the get-go and the Roto Metals Lyman #2. Eliminate as many variables as you can to ensure success.

With the Pro 4-20, you have a "hot plate" to rest your mold on anytime it is not in your hand. The certified mix eliminates the need to mix or render alloys, something that should not be done in your casting pot because of the trash buildup, and your BHN will be consistent.

You don't need to buy a bunch of alloy from Roto Metals just to get the free shipping; I'd buy just 5 or 10 lbs of nuggets as the shipping is a flat $10 until your cart reaches $99.

I agree with a two-cavity mold for starters, and I would choose a Lee design as the aluminum blocks are easy to prep, heat, and use. It sounds like you are going to cast for a 45 Auto, I would use the tumble lube design, and not go with the pan lube. The TL452-230-RN is a good design, get a .452 Lube and Size Kit to go with it. That will give you enough lube to get started, and the die helps identify bullets that should be rejected and will remove the excess lube on those you keep.

The casting stuff, throw the little Lee ladle in there to stir the pot, is going to run you $145 which would include shipping and the alloy, 10 lbs, $39 shipped. So something less than $200. If you don't like it, you could probably recover at least 75% of that. If you do like it, you have a good base of the equipment.

I've seen and talked to a lot of new casters that get frustrated with piecing it together.

[Macd]

I started with the ladle and cast iron pot but pretty quickly got a Lee pot. I added a thermometer from NOE and haven't looked back. Clean wheel weight ingots are fine as is for handgun Ammo. I also use straight WW for rifle up to 1600 FPS. Adding tin isn't necessary but helps with fill out. You can increase hardness of WW by water quenching. Frosty bullets i.e. high temp melt and mold harden better. These I shoot up to 2200 FPS. I shoot exclusively tumble lubed bullets in several calibres of pistol and revolver without any leading issues. This includes the Lee 230-452 which I use in 45ACP and 45 Colt. In rifle I have used pan lubed bullets and a lube recipe I got from a book. I even rendered out and filtered my own beeswax. Workshop never smelled so good lol. One of the best references I found for casting is by Glen Fryxell and Robert Applegate. Have fun.
http://www.lasc.us/fryxell_book_contents.htm

[JohnnyEnfield]

You guys are all very helpful and I appreciate your input. I will eventually cast a few calibers, but thought .45 ACP bullets would be a good place to start. Tumble lube seems simple but I will need to keep it clean and try not make a mess. Also if I try powder coating them they will work well from what I have seen. I am falling down the rabbit hole of reloading and now the hole is just getting bigger...it is a good thing my wife likes me shooting and reloading.

[cj8281]

An electric casting pot will provide you with a more stable temperature for casting. Being able to adjust the temperature gradually or in small increments will help you greatly. Use your turkey fryer and your Dutch oven for smelt scavenged lead, wheel weights and such. Get an ingot mold, you can use a muffin tin or something like that. I like my RCBS one simply for the fact that the ingots go into a mostly empty pot easier. Lyman makes one very similar to the RCBS, it says Lyman on the bottom instead of RCBS. The Lee ingot mold looks pretty cool as you can choose to make littler ingots or bigger ingots. Never used one of them though. I have had lead ingots from others that were round from a muffin tin or something and they did not work as well unless they were thin, like ½ inch or less. What I now use for smelting is a little iron pot that has a tab that I can grab with a pair of Visegrips and a little spout for pouring. It holds about 6 pounds and it fits fine on my Coleman white gas stove.

I started out piecing things together and scrounging. I started casting before there was google and youtube but I had a couple of knowledgeable people close by that helped me out a lot when I first started. When you get more experience, try casting from your Dutch oven on your turkey cooker with a ladle. You will gain experience from it. I have smelted wheel weights and scavenged lead in my Lee production pot. I highly recommend that you don't do that. The steps you have to take to get ALL the dirt out does not make it worth it.
I can easily see why Ranch Dog posted what he did. By using a known metal with an electric casting pot, you should be able to cast some great bullets quickly. Out of all the Lee bullet molds that I have there is only one that I have had issues with. I was able to find a replacement for pretty quickly. The 451 tumble lube 230 grain round nose mold casts a beautiful bullet. I have one for a buddies 45 Colt.

[GasGuzzler]

I too use the iron dutch oven and turkey fryer to SMELT scrap but not for casting. Temp is very hard to control. I would surmise it costs more to use in the long run than electric so I only smelt once per year when I miss work for icy roads (hence no smelt last year).

I started with the Lee 4-20 and I agree it's the way to go. Since I have a free source of wheel weights I started making my own alloy from the beginning but when giving advice I agree with the others, buy a known mix until at least you know you want to continue.

I would also suggest it's easier for a beginner to learn to keep a mold consistent temperature with a six-holer. You'll get more practice in a quicker time frame too.

[Ranch Dog]

Here is the math behind some of my reasoning for just "tooling" up with new stuff. I've been doing it enough now that I know, very conservatively, that new equipment will last at least 50,000 bullets before it needs parts. It probably will last twice that with routine cleaning and care during casting. Based on 50K bullets, the cost of the equipment is less than a penny a bullet.

Store bought alloys are just as cheap as and will place fewer contaminants against your equipment. Buying just 10 pounds of the alloy and paying the shipping will cost you 13¢ for every TL452-230-RN you drop. Buying seven units of the alloy to realize the free shipping drops the cost of a bullet to 10¢, I don't see the advantage of saving three cents with this initial purchase because you are also looking at laying out the money for the equipment.

I'm suggesting to buy it and I'm a guy that has scrounged two tons of lead. I cleaned out a ton of linotype from a print shop for a nickel a pound. I wasn't able to find a single wheel weight at a time when they were being thrown away. All the tire service outfits had customers that had spoken for them and had been picking them up for years. There are no bullet casters in my area, but there is a bunch of fishermen, guys that run trotlines, and scuba divers. How I acquired the wheelweights was that I told the fellows that I let hog hunt on my ranch that there was no such thing as free hunting anymore, each time they came, they had to bring me a 5-gallon bucket of wheel weights. They lived in the cities but it did require a lot of driving. Some never came back.

Maybe you will be in an area that you can scrounge, but there is a cost in doing that as well, both fuel and time. Mine was little but there is a cost of smelting or rendering the material into a usable bullet alloy; burners, pots, ladles, muffin trays or store-bought ingot molds, plus propane and a regulator. Be sure you add all this to the cost of the finished bullet.

I also think that smelting the material is the most dangerous part of the casting work; both physically to your self and your property. You really need to mind your business or you will get sick. I've caught a table top on fire just because of ambient heat. I know a fellow that had done this for decades, and he burnt his entire shop, to include all his firearms, to dust. One second of inattention while smelting is all it takes. You will also need a place to dispose of the waste that the smelting produces. I'm sure that you will eventually get a splatter spec on your skin and it will show you how just how hot this stuff is and just how long it stays hot. If you have been in the military, think Willey Pete.

The fellow that rebuilt my home was bringing me plumbers lead. Most of the homes in the area are old enough that all the plumbing joints and window seals are pure lead. He was happy to have a place to get rid of it, but after smelting a 100 pounds of it, I told him I would not take it anymore. It usually has good old fashion tar on it to seal it to the wood. That stuff is very volatile. My rendering area looks like an Iraqi oil field burning. My life with a muzzleloader was short, and I have a small need for slugs and buckshot, but when I'm out, I will buy it.

In that you asked, I wanted to make sure you understood all the casting possibilities as I know had I been around an active bullet caster and been able to see everything that goes into it, I would have done things differently.