Newbee question - bullet seating problem

[mlail]

As I stated I am real new to reloading but have loaded some .40 bullets with success. However, when I move over to reloading 9mm's, I run into a problem, the Bullet Seat and Feed Die does not push the bullet into the shell. The crimping works great but unless the bullet gets pushed down into the shell it is useless.

Tools:
Lee Breech lock Challenger
Lee 3 die set for 9mm Lugar
Lee extra die for bullet set and feed

What I have done:
I removed the new die and following the instructions I reinstalled it to be 3 full turns above when the ram touches the die. I also adjusted the top knob up and down with no change in bullet position. So I brought the whole die down in 1/2 increments and still no change in seating of the bullet. Next I bought a new seating die and it too functions the same way.

So, what am I doing wrong? Maybe I am just not understanding how to set up the die but I think that I understand and follow the instructions. I even watched several Youtube videos but they don't really cover set up of the dies in enough detail. I guess it's hard to show what they feel as they adjust the knobs.

[jloader]

Here's the video from Lee on adjusting the bullet sitting die for progressive press but your setup should be just about the same - your part starts about half way thru the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPtdEFS2CAo

If I'm reading your post correctly, you are not adjusting the die with the case on the ram. This die requires the case on the ram for adjustment.

[mlail]

Other points that might help. The brass are all clean, resized, and flared. The .355 135GR #2 lead cast bullets sit within the flare and are the correct length.

jloader - I watched the vid that you posted and the instructions do not match what came with the die and I only have a single arm press. Also, I inserted the die into the press, raised the ram (lowered the arm) until the die and ram tip (with shell holder) touches. That is when the read in bold "Then back it out three full turns", then finger tighten the ring.
In the video with a load-master press, he backs the die out 1/2 turn with the top knob fully retracted. Then he adds a empty shell with bullet and turns the adjustment know down 2 full turns. He finishes by raising the ram and lowering the adjustment knob until it touches the bullet and you get the depth of the bullet needed. Then he runs the die in about 1/2 turn and the adjustment know out about 2 turns. With the ram/shell/bullet raised, he turns the adj knob in until it stops.

Are you suggesting that the die instructions are incorrect? I can give it a try this way.

[jloader]

There are different ways to set the crimp but the end result is the same, just like there are different ways to get from point A to point B.
I've found another good video with single stage where the guy goes thru the process much slower and provides a lot of explanations. He is not using Lee, so the die looks a bit different, but the components and process are same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NZkIqfwZDQ

It gets quite confusing with different ways to calibrate each die. Yes, it can get frustrating but don't give up.
By the way, Lee's dies are the same for all presses, single or progressive.

[mlail]

The basic process is the same for setting up the die. I guess where I am struggling is with the die itself. On either seating die, even with the die touching the ram and the adjustment knob all the way down, the bullet doesn't get pushed down. It doesn't move at all. Almost as if either the die is incorrect or the bullet is too short. Since I bought another die I suspected it was the bullets but then I measured the bullets and they match specs. One would expect that when you have the knob fully ran in and it won't go any further, that the bullet would be pushed too far into the case.
I'll keep trying.

[mlail]

OK, so I think the problem is with the Lee dies. I compared my .40 cal die to the 9mm lugar and there is a world of difference in depth. So the 9mm die has a depth of 2 3/4" before it tops out. There is no way the bullet can be pushed into the shell. By the way, when I measured the die depth, that was with the adj knob screwed all the way in.. I also took a bullet and slid it through the die insert. This suggests the insert is on for crimping and the top of the adj knob is what pushes the bullet into the shell. So when the instructions says I have a Bullet Seat and feed die, what I really have is a factory crimp die. It appears the crimp die does not actually push the bullet into the shell.

[horseman]

If you have the Lee three die set then you have the "proper" seating die. We are to assume the "extra" die you have is the Lee factory crimp die. I believe you have the crimp die and seating die mixed up in your process. They look pretty much identical on the outside, but the seating die (if you dismantle it) is the one with the small "cup" on the end of the insert. You are correct that the factory crimp die will only crimp a case. Adjust the actual bullet seating die per instructions and you should be fine.

[Ranch Dog]

When trying to identify the dies, the Carbide FCD is the one with the steel ring inserted into the bottom of the die.

What kind of nose is on your lead bullet?

[GasGuzzler]

There's a clue in the newest post by the OP that tells me we need pictures.

[GasGuzzler]

Sorry to post bomb but I have a similar set up that's close to being right on out of the box and I can post pics later.