Lee Loader

RBHarter wrote:I'm curious about it not stablizing ?
It's creator designed it to be a high velocity greased and checked bullet .
Over spun maybe ? The work done did get it sub MOA at 3000 fps but it was done in 1-16" twist .

Well my Rem 770 in 30-06 has a 1:10 twist 6 groove bore so basically at some point as I increase the velocity so will the number of revolution be imparted to the bullet and with any imperfection the cast bullet might exhibit seen or unseen that will accentuate any imbalance /stability of the bullet as it flies through the air mainly Wobble and Yaw thus making the bullet inaccurate and in some instances even causing it to fly apart as it exits the bore if the bullets alloy isnt strong enough to handle the gyroscopic forces. The only way to increase the velocity and still keep the bullet stable in a certain RPM range is to use a slower twist bore like a 1 to 12, 14 or 16 twist.

According to what I have read I really shouldn't have been able to do what I did with in my rifle with a 50/50 alloy, powder coat / quenched, gas check bullet. Accuracy should have gone south right around the 2K fps. range but I just blew that off, I mean what the worst that could have happened, bad accuracy and a leaded bore or the bullet never made it to the target.

Granted my groups were only at 50 yds. so I still have to prove I can stay at that velocity and get acceptable accuracy at 100 yds. or more but I think it's doable and I might have to harden up my alloy a bit as well, but thats the fun part of experimenting. On a side note I shot almost an identical group about quarter size with the same load using a Lee 170 gr. FN bullet. I'm still a full 3.0 grs. off the Max. charge weight I can use with this load an bullet weight so I have that to ponder as well. But if I can get this load to shoot MOA at 100 yds. I'll be happy with that.

That is the design principal of that bullet .

I wasn't going to touch the rev threshold thing with a laser pointer from the back side of Pluto , what mess that's made other places .

I have the ........fortune of having an 8.5 twist 06' , 9.5 twist x39 , 10 twist 06' &30-30 and 12 twist 308 . I had a 12 twist 06' but it never shot anything really well .
I have seen the over spun bullet stuff in jacketed and cast in 30 Cal .

RBHarter wrote:That is the design principal of that bullet .

I wasn't going to touch the rev threshold thing with a laser pointer from the back side of Pluto , what mess that's made other places .

I have the ........fortune of having an 8.5 twist 06' , 9.5 twist x39 , 10 twist 06' &30-30 and 12 twist 308 . I had a 12 twist 06' but it never shot anything really well .
I have seen the over spun bullet stuff in jacketed and cast in 30 Cal .

I think you can over spin bullets at some point, I know I have blown up a few cast bullets in my time but I think a lot comes into play that determines when that will happen. There are ways to not cause that to happen but I also think you can push things much further than some of the claims that have been made. I've already reached a point beyond where I thought I would be.

Far be it for me .

I tried to learn all I can and and for all I've learned I'm still dumb as a mud fence when it comes to the physics of all of this ......the mechanics I'm good on but the physics.......

I've been very surprised and pleased as well as incredibly frustrated by cast so many times ...... That fast twisted 06' just gave me fits until I figured out I couldn't get there from here . I went heavy and never looked back . At the same time the 308 won't shoot anything over 175 gr regardless of shape or type .

Then there's this 30-30 that outside of a 230 NOE , that was just an experiment to see if it would , won't shoot a bad load .

Of course you know about fit over form as well and that's a big part except when it isn't .

Finished up a box of 44 mag. Berry's 240 grain flat point 10.6 grains CFE Pistol, same load I used for some regular cast 240s with conventional lube.

Also put together a ladder in 357 with Precision's 100 grain coated and Trail Boss. As a side note I'm please the DPM handled the TB superbly.

Make smoke,

Ohio3Wheels wrote:Finished up a box of 44 mag. Berry's 240 grain flat point 10.6 grains CFE Pistol, same load I used for some regular cast 240s with conventional lube.

Also put together a ladder in 357 with Precision's 100 grain coated and Trail Boss. As a side note I'm please the DPM handled the TB superbly.

Make smoke,

do the Berry's 240 gr plated bullets have at least a shallow cannelure that you can put a marginal taper crimp in without cutting the plating?


jd

???

mr surveyor wrote:

Ohio3Wheels wrote:Finished up a box of 44 mag. Berry's 240 grain flat point 10.6 grains CFE Pistol, same load I used for some regular cast 240s with conventional lube.

Also put together a ladder in 357 with Precision's 100 grain coated and Trail Boss. As a side note I'm please the DPM handled the TB superbly.

Make smoke,

do the Berry's 240 gr plated bullets have at least a shallow cannelure that you can put a marginal taper crimp in without cutting the plating?


jd

No neither the Berry's nor the Precision have canulures. On the 44s I used a Lee FCD with a light "squeeze" and with the 357s a slight tapper, enough to hold against magazine spring pressure.

Headed to the range shortly to see how they do.

Make smoke,

EDIT:
The Berry's 240 with 10.6 of CFE Pistol gave me an average of 1296 fps an ES of 72 and a SD of 27.6 that's a little faster than Berry's recommended 1250 fps off hand accuracy was about 2" x 1". I'll shoot some from rest later.

The 357s the 5 grains of Trail Boss gave the best SD at 18.6 and an average of 1157. There's a little room to play here and I plan to work up toward the max load and see if it gets better, so more later.

Make smoke,

Ohio3Wheels wrote:

mr surveyor wrote:

Ohio3Wheels wrote:Finished up a box of 44 mag. Berry's 240 grain flat point 10.6 grains CFE Pistol, same load I used for some regular cast 240s with conventional lube.

Also put together a ladder in 357 with Precision's 100 grain coated and Trail Boss. As a side note I'm please the DPM handled the TB superbly.

Make smoke,

do the Berry's 240 gr plated bullets have at least a shallow cannelure that you can put a marginal taper crimp in without cutting the plating?


jd

No neither the Berry's nor the Precision have canulures. On the 44s I used a Lee FCD with a light "squeeze" and with the 357s a slight tapper, enough to hold against magazine spring pressure.

Headed to the range shortly to see how they do.

Make smoke,

thanks for the answer. That's why I've never ordered Berry's or X-Treme plated bullets for .357 mag, .44 mag or 30-30. It may, or may not, be absolutely necessary in every case but I still prefer a nice defined crimp groove in anything I'm putting into a tube fed carbine/rifle. Also, the firm, consistent crimp seems to make a measurable difference in extreme spreads ... just from my personal experience.

just

I've never been concerned with a cannelure since I load for OAL regardless. Most times it ends up where the bullet maker wants, sometimes not.