454 Casull Brass, Dies, and Loads

[RBHarter]

I dabbled in the go fast Ruger loads for a while . I started out at almost 454 length with a given bullet and Ruger Data in a 70s vintage RBH 45 Colts . I had a load that made the start velocity that was in the middle of the load window . The load was 1020-1070 fps at .005 short of 454 OAL but .005 over Colts length . I loaded 15 rounds 3 of each and brought the length down .01 for each set of 3. At .02 over Colts length I was pushing well over 1250 fps with a 452-255 RNFP that tipped in at 265 as cast in a 7.5 in Blackhawk. Now what that says to me is that a significant pressure rise is happening. I abandoned that effort for several reasons 1 was that a 265 gr RNFP at 1400 fps (assuming that I had proceeded to the max load at Colts length) was more than I would ever need in the lower 48 outside of the Yellowstone region and at 1250+ they just weren't any fun to shoot.

Forward 8 yr I have a Rosschester 92' and all the info available says that +P Colts should be ok . So I'm working a load that with a paper patched 44 cal Keith bullet should drive safely to 1600 fps and only be into about 20 kpsi in a Colts case. This is not in a 3" revolver or even a 7.5 but in a 16" Carbine.

My thoughts are this . If you shoot Colts cases your going to get a crud ring that could hang up a 454 length case . You have a pistol rated for 65,000 psi chambered for a 65,000 psi cartridge. So there is little risk applying any sense at all to this of using any and all Colts loads which at their upper limits will deliver 250-260 gr bullets at 1200 fps from the short bbl and be zero fun to shoot . You can also seat them long to 454 length and hold them to 75% of the 454 load window and probably be just fine but it will be hard on the brass with the thinner heads. I've loaded some 357s in 38 cases that way just to see, no harm no foul just premature case failure. In the end it is your choice and the question is really, do you need/want the 454 power for every day or can you be happy on the range with hot Colts ? Some folks like to shoot full power mags for fun I'm not 1 of them I've never had magnumitus, I have looked for a particular goal that should be attainable based on other/s experience.

[fullagofast]

I am with RD on just getting 454 brass.

The other thing you could do is load ruger only loads (25-35k) in 45 colt and work up from there always watching for pressure signs.

Is the alaskan safe at 35k pressure? Absolutely.

Can you get to 40k and still be safe?...50k...60? The pressure signs will tell you when to stop.

[6Gears1Speed]

Wow thanks so much for the detailed information. It makes it really easy to understand with the diagrams.
I didn't provide enough information in my op. In my head I was just thinking about how I could use 45 Colt cases instead of 454 cases because used 45 Colts are much more available. I knew I couldn't just use the same data but didn't expand on it.

I guess I'll load my 45 Colt cases for softer loads and buy some new 454 cases for the thumpers. It's not like you can shoot this thing all day long anyway so they should last a long time. After one wheel full your fingers are vibrating . It's fun pain though. I also clean the crap out of my guns so low use and frequent cleaning should eliminate the possibility of ring build up.

[Ranch Dog]

Just catching up on a few things and wanted to show an example where I use off cartridge brass to achieve a goal that the correct brass will not allow (without a huge amount of trimming).

With my Rossi 92 chambered in 357 Mag, I would like to use my 35 Rem cast bullet for large big game. It is 190-grain bullet, the TLC359-190-RF.



The ogive of this bullet is a very good fit for the 357 Mag chamber but the length of the bullet causes it to be seated very deep in a 357 Mag case. Rather than trim, I use a 38 Spl +P case.

[6Gears1Speed]

Someone here sent me an ad on Armslist for a guy in TN selling a bunch of 454 and 45 Colt brass and the dies. Unfortunately when I responded he didn't reply, probably because I'm out of state. He probably thinks I'm a scammer or just doesn't feel like shipping. Oh well...

[Ranch Dog]

I've inquired into several dozen Armslist ads and have NEVER had anyone reply. I don't bother with the website anymore, it is a waste of time.

[6Gears1Speed]

I normally don't bother because most people there want your stuff for nothing like Craigslist but I've done a few successful deals. This guy has exactly what i need so i tried. My main place for classifieds is northeastshooters.com. Most people are local to me so I can do face to face deals. They also use iTrader so I can check people out.

[6Gears1Speed]

I'm confused about something... Lee sells separate die sets for 45 Colt and 454 Casull. If this gun will fire both I assumed the diameters are the same so I could use the 45 Colt die set for both and just adjust for case length. My Lee book shows the 454 Casull as .452 bullet diameter and 45 Colt as .454 bullet diameter. Is this a misprint? Can I use either of these die sets for both calibers or not? Why would they make separate die sets? I don't get it.

[RBHarter]

The modern Colts are 451-2 also ,however they were as much as 458 (read 457-460) in pre War guns ,especially Colts . The 454 has only been built to a single SAMMI standard. Yes in theory you can use just the Colts die for Colts 454 and 460. But you'll probably be heard screaming the 1st (or more) time you run that seating die up and discover the crimp at Colts length on a 454. (Because nobody has every done that to a 357......) I would buy a 2nd crimp or seat and crimp die as set 1 up for each. To get started with a single set it's fine but slip up on a reset a couple of times and the 2nd set is worth every penny.

[6Gears1Speed]

I do have two die sets for 38spl and 357 mag, but this isn't going to be a high volume setup for me and it's probably not a gun I will have forever so I may not want to invest in the extra dies. I may never even load any 45 Colts. I'd probably just load some light 454's if I don't want the full on rage of a 454. I guess the real question is why do they sell two sets, one labeled 45 Colt and one labeled 454 Casull, instead of selling one set labeled for both like the 38/357 die sets I have? They are the same thing right?