454 Casull Brass, Dies, and Loads

[6Gears1Speed]

I just bought a brand new Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 454 Casull/45 Colt.
Luckily I traded for a box of ammo a few months ago hoping that I'd someday get this gun because brass is hard to come by and ammo is expensive. I've only been able to find a couple of places that sell new brass at about $60 plus shipping for 100 pieces. No used brass to be found. I do have some 45 Colt and that's more available at reasonable prices. 454 is double the price! Probably because it's not made in large quantities.

Anybody here know of a place that has it but may not come up in a Google search?
Also, if anybody has some they don't need I'd be willing to trade for some brass you do need if I have it and I'll add extra on my end.

Thanks.

Here's the hand cannon. We have no bears. Around here it's a thrill gun. Today I shot at a 1/4" steel target 50 feet away and put a hole right through it. Can't fire more than a wheel or two at a time. The wrist is OK but it stings the fingers pretty good. Sounds like a rifle when it fires.

[Ranch Dog]

Nice looking handgun! I have a Rossi M92 scout rifle chambered in the cartridge and buy my brass directly from Starline. I've never seen it not in stock.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cas ... ull-Brass/

[62chevy]

Nice looking handgun! I have a Rossi M92 scout rifle chambered in the cartridge and buy my brass directly from Starline. I've never seen it not in stock.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cas ... ull-Brass/

In stock too and 250 at the same price of a 100 else where.

[6Gears1Speed]

Thanks guys. So I have a question...
Since the 454 case was made a touch longer only so somebody wouldn't put a 454 round into a 45 Colt gun there's no reason why I can't load 45 Colt cases with 454 data right? From a safety standpoint, I don't own a 45 Colt gun and don't share my ammo so there's no risk. 45 Colt brass is much cheaper and used brass can be found. I even have some right now. Are 45 Colt cases thinner or are they the exact same as 454 cases but shorter?

[fullagofast]

Please dont do that. 45 colt pressures are much lower that .454. Couple that with the shorter case and the pressure spike will probably take off your hand.

I wouldn't want to pull the trigger on a gun with those loads.

[Ranch Dog]

I would tend to bend the other way. Based on the detailed case measurements that I keep, I don't think that it would matter. The web on the 45 Colt Win cases is actually thicker than that of the Starline Casull cases. The rim of the of the 45 Colt cases is a .002" thinner and that is probably worth about 5k PSI (2500 PSI per .001 of brass thickness). I've got to run to town for the afternoon but will look at all this in depth tonight. I also have Starline cases for the 45 Colt and Win cases for the 454 Casull so I would be able to compare apples to apples.

[6Gears1Speed]

I just unscientifically tested some myself.
I have some Starline 454 that I have fired and some 45 Colt mixed headstamp range pickups.
45 Colts are FC, Win, Starline and Hornandy.
I used my calipers and tested over and over many times.
In every case the Starline 454 wall measures .012 and rim measures .052.
In every case the 45 Colt walls measure .013 to .015 and rims measure .054 to .056.

So, even though measuring curved walls with calipers may not provide and exact measurement of the individual wall, the fact that the 45 Colts repeatedly measure thicker than the 454 tells me that they are in fact thicker.

[fullagofast]

I freely concede the cases may in fact be the same or close in thickness. My concern would be the pressure.

45 Colt's SAAMI spec is 14,000psi and Ruger only loads run up to about 25,000psi. I hear of folks who push up to 35,000psi with super heavy loads but it isn't recommended in a 45 Colt. The 454 loads I see run around 65,000psi.

If I understand the OPs question, he wants to load 45 colt brass with 454 load data. I am just guessing, but figure that loading 45 colt brass to 65,000psi probably wouldn't end well, especially since the 454 load data assumes a oal of almost .100" more.

[6Gears1Speed]

So I guess the real question should be, how do I adjust 454 data to achieve the same pressure in a case that's .100 shorter? Right?

[Ranch Dog]

So I guess the real question should be, how do I adjust 454 data to achieve the same pressure in a case that's .100 shorter? Right?

When you opened the topic, I thought you intended to maintain a 454 Casull appropropriate overall length by seating the bullet further out of the 45 Colt case. You would need a program like QuickLoad to calculate the data if you wanted to use a shorter OAL.

I didn't get back to this last night because I wanted to take the time to really look at the brass. Honestly, I would not use the 45 Colt brass. The rim thickness might be the same but the thickness at the web isn't. In fact, it is near half that of the 454 Casull. The strange thing is that the web is deeper on the 45 Colt case but I would still be concerned with the wall thickness at the web.

454Casull_Starline-454Casull_Brass.jpg

454Casull_Starline-45Colt_Brass.jpg

Notice in the drawings that the cartridge overall length has been maintained.

I freely concede the cases may in fact be the same or close in thickness. My concern would be the pressure.

45 Colt's SAAMI spec is 14,000psi and Ruger only loads run up to about 25,000psi. I hear of folks who push up to 35,000psi with super heavy loads but it isn't recommended in a 45 Colt. The 454 loads I see run around 65,000psi.

If I understand the OPs question, he wants to load 45 colt brass with 454 load data. I am just guessing, but figure that loading 45 colt brass to 65,000psi probably wouldn't end well, especially since the 454 load data assumes a oal of almost .100" more.

In my Rossi 92 45 Colt rifles, I use 35.0K PSI and have for years without issue. I did so with a Marlin 1894 chambered in 45 Colt for a decade before that.

The issue with revolvers is the cylinder wall thickness. I do own a Taurus 450, a conceal carry short barrelled revolver and I use the SAAMI data as it would apply to that firearm. I also owned the Rossi Circuit Judge rifle and used the SAAMI spec because of the cylinder wall thickness.

Well 6gears… you wanted a big bore, I would suggest you ante up and get the brass.