Rifle Roll Crimp

[Rooster59]

There have been some observations recently that many of the Lee rifle dies do not include a roll crimp. This is going off just the sales info on the die pages but it appears the bullet seating/roll crimping dies have been replaced in many of the sets with a dead length seater and factory crimp die.

Anybody else notice this or is it miscommunication?

Jeff

[mr surveyor]

I've seen the same claim/discussion on other forums as well. Last night I did a bit of searching for info that could be considered direct from Lee, but found no explanation or announcement from them. Those that just tend to totally despise the Lee FCD, for whatever reason, will most likely gravitate to becoming total anti-Lee product detractors. Lee might need to spend a little PR capital and make the case for their game plan.

JD

[mikld]

I'm one of those that think Lee Factory Crimp Dies for handgun cartridges are worthless. But I use the Lee Factory Crimp Dies for rifles in 2 calibers; .223 and 30-06, totally different animal! I haven't tried to crimp with my regular "seating/crimping" dies for these calibers so I can't offer any opinions there...

[Ranch Dog]

Anybody else notice this or is it miscommunication?

Seems as though the only sets still using the traditional bullet seating/crimping die are the Pacesetter Three Die Steel sets (these are for straight walled cartridges and have a Powder through Expander Die) and then the Pacesetter Two Die sets.

I am a FCD guys and would probably buy Ultimate sets if I stated loading a new cartridge.

[Rooster59]

I'm one of those that think Lee Factory Crimp Dies for handgun cartridges are worthless. But I use the Lee Factory Crimp Dies for rifles in 2 calibers; .223 and 30-06, totally different animal! I haven't tried to crimp with my regular "seating/crimping" dies for these calibers so I can't offer any opinions there...

My experience has been opposite of yours apparently. The roll crimp is fine for my lead bullets and I like to use the FCD for jacketed, but I don't load much jacketed pistol rounds. Mostly lead plinkers.

I tried to use the roll crimp on some oversized .454" 45 Colt bullets but the die was too small in diameter. It hit the bullet. Before I resorted to using my .45-70 roll crimp die I tried the Lee FCD, since it is actually a roll crimp style anyway. It allowed the bullet to enter and be crimped with only a barely perceptible touch on the bullet. It didn't appear to downsize the case or cast bullet. That may not be the experience of others though. Crimping with either die and .452" bullets doesn't create contact.

I use the rifle FCD for jacketed and lead. For jacketed because it makes a better crimp in the cannelure in my opinion/experience. For target plinking lead rifle loads I use it to save time adjusting the die body to roll crimp and trimming brass to the same length. My FCD in 30-30 and 45-70 don't downsize fatter bullets, and provides an adequate crimp to avoid bullet setback in those cases. If it is for precision loads I trim brass and roll crimp.

If I were Lee not sure I would exclude a lot of handloaders who religiously use only a roll crimp. Seems contrary to maintaining the revenue stream.

[mr surveyor]

personally, I've been very satisfied with my three handgun caliber 4 die sets and use the FCD with every bullet I load .... but none are considered "oversize". Having followed the discussions concerning the FCD (pistol caliber), and how it "downsizes" cast bullets with the additional sizing ring, I've had to really try to think it out for the last three years of my vast experience of reloading. My .38/.357 cast bullets are all sized to .358, the .44 bullets are all sized to .430, and the .45 acp bullets are also sized to .001 over bore spec. Lucky me, all of my guns that I load for are well within caliber spec, so the .001 over spec cast bullets apparently do well as I've not experienced any leading issues. The .001 "over spec" obviously doesn't have any adverse interaction with the standard Lee FCD, although very occasionally I can feel a pretty dramatic drag on both the upstroke and downstroke of the ram. The issue concerning cast bullets and the FCD are becoming more apparent to me, particularly with the pistol caliber dies. Now, I'm trying to wrap my little head around the issue with the rifle FCD. I only have one rifle Lee FCD, and that's a .30-30 to compliment a 2 die RCBS set, so my experience is limited to that one die. I was doing fine with the 2 die and roll crimp, but loved the FCD in the pistol dies, I had to have it for the .30-30 (and it's been great with the Sierra and Rem C/L bullets so far). Being a collet type die, how would it adversely affect a cast bullet? Does it also have a sizing ring that I haven't noticed? I haven't found a readily available source for the .30 cal cast bullets I want, so I haven't even looked into a proper expander die ... but I would like to know whether or not to even try the Lee FCD with .310-.311 cast gc bullets.


So much to learn, and at 60+ yrs old, so little time.

JD

[Steve]

I use the Lee FCD for 223 and 30-06. I will soon be casting bullets for the 30-06. I plan on useing the FCD on the 30-06 cast bullets for the M1. I see no reason it won't work just fine with the cast. Just my opinion.
In the late 80s I shot this same bullet in a bolt gun in High power matches at 100 yards. It shot pretty good.