Bullet Seating Die Adjustment When Using FCD?

[Solsand]

I’m new to the Forum, but have been reading several posts since I signed up last week. I am new to reloading, as in just bought all my equipment and have been studying and researching, as well as picking the brains of my fellow club shooters. Unfortunately most all of them use the Blue brand and have no experience with the Carbide Factory Crimp Die. In any case, my question is this — how do I adjust the Bullet Seating Die so that it does NOT crimp, so that I can crimp on my FCD? Do I just run it in until it touches the shell plate and back it out a little to be safe? Also, if anyone knows, how much crimp do I need on a coated bullet? Specifically 147gn FP Blue Bullets. Any help and info is appreciated.

[Ohio3Wheels]

Don't know that this is the easiest way, but what I do:

1. run the ram all the way up with a case in the shell holder
2. back the lock ring on your seater die off far enough to do the next step
3> thread the seater die down until you feel the crimp shoulder hit the case mouth
4. back off a half turn and lock the die down
5. adjust seating depth with the seater stem not the whole die
6. always unscrew the die by using the lock ring not the die body.

As to how much crimp, enough to keep the bullet where you put it as the cartridge cycles through the gun.

Welcome to the forum and enjoy the new hobby

Stay well, be safe, make smoke,

[Ranch Dog]

It sounds like you are using the four Die Deluxe Pistol Die set in that you mentioned the Carbide Factory Crimp Die. I suspect it is a 9mm Luger die set given the 147-grain bullet.

Anyway, the bullet seating die should have a tapered nose that meets the shell plate. If so, run the die in to shell plate contact and then back it out three complete turns per the instructions. No chance of a crimp being applied.



As per the crimp applied with the Carbide Factory Crimp Die, I'd follow those instructions as well and apply the minimum crimp.

[GasGuzzler]

I agree with the last two but also keep in mind the pistol FCD will very slightly lengthen the OAL so make the seater go about 0.002" short.

When you get the die body set just right with no crimp you will see it only iron the flare ... but that's only most important if you flare/load cast anyway. If you're loading plated or jacketed you don't need any flare anyway...and with plated you don't want too much crimp regardless of the type...especially with a mouth chambering round like 9X19.

[Solsand]

Thanks very much to @ohio3wheels, @gasguzzler and @ranch dog (couldn’t figure out how to multi-quote on this forum...). I should have provided a little more info but was trying to keep it brief. I purchase a Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro 4000 Kit in 9mm, which from my limited experience and research looks to be an Auto Breech Lock Pro but with everything already installed or provided when you open the box. It came with a three die set already installed, supposedly with the dies already set but they were not adjusted properly based on the info I have found. I bought, as an extra, the Carbide Factory Crimp Die. The dies did not come with any individual instructions, just a basic “quick start” guide, which seems counterintuitive. They did not come in the typical three die case with instructions. The FCD came in an individual case with basic instructions. The instructions that @ranch dog posted are way more detailed and make more sense. FWIW, I am using 147gr coated Blue Bullets. I plan on using Titegroup to start. Once I get my loader on the bench tomorrow I will see how things go. My basic issue question was “how do I set the Bullet Seating Die so that it doesn’t crimp, and then set/adjust the FCD to just lightly crimp the Blue Bullet?” That has been answered thanks to you three gentlemen. I’ll see how it goes, but I can’t promise I won’t be back with more questions!

[horseman]

All that was said is very good information, and generically correct. I'm going to "assume" you're loading a 9MM auto so would like to add one more thing about crimp. Beware...math involved... Measure the case wall thickness of a few pieces of your brass, calipers are fine for this, measure two or three places around the mouth to get a good average. Most brass will be in the .011 to .012 range. (close enough) Measure the diameter of some of the bullets you're going to use for a good "average". Add two times the case wall thickness .0115+.0115= (.023) PLUS your average bullet dia. (example: .357) and in this "example" that would give you a finished loaded round diameter of .380 . Adjust your CRIMP die to reduce this .002 to .004 thousandths smaller. Finished crimped round at .376 to .378 as it will vary a bit. This is not a heavy crimp (well, kinda heavy) but will help prevent possible bullet set back. Personally, I aim for .004 on a taper crimp.

Easy way to say: two times case wall thickness plus bullet diameter minus .004 completed crimped round.

[mikld]

I'm a K.I.S.S. advocate and quit measuring crimps on my semi-auto handloads long ago. I do not "crimp" any of my semi-auto handloads (32 ACP, 380 ACP, 9x19, 45 ACP). I just deflare with deflaring die (aka taper crimp die) and check with a plunk test to insure consistent, good chambering. Been using my method since about '89 and have had no problems...

I've always found it best to pay attention to what the manufacturer has to say about adjusting their tools, and as RD posted, read instructions factory...

[horseman]

I'm a K.I.S.S. advocate and quit measuring crimps on my semi-auto handloads long ago. I do not "crimp" any of my semi-auto handloads (32 ACP, 380 ACP, 9x19, 45 ACP). I just deflare with deflaring die (aka taper crimp die) and check with a plunk test to insure consistent, good chambering. Been using my method since about '89 and have had no problems...

I've always found it best to pay attention to what the manufacturer has to say about adjusting their tools, and as RD posted, read instructions factory...

If you just "remove the "flare", how much is that. I hear that all the time but if you don't measure ONE to set the die to "remove the "flare" you have no idea what you have. I don't measure each one either, just when I set the die. If you have a loaded round at .380 PLUS whatever flare you put on the case do you just set the die to touch the case mouth and a half turn (regular seating die) or the 1/2 turn on the LFCD or some other method and then check the case by "eye" and then just plunk it in the barrel and if it fit's you're good? Necessary or not I prefer a bit more "precision" (roughly). Just because Lee says a full turn is a heavy crimp and a half turn is a light crimp, by who's standards? By the way I did not come up with these as arbitrary numbers, they're out there, just a little looking will find them. Not bustin' your chops here, but I want a bit more info than "I just remove the flare". I'm sure that works just fine for some, but I have noticed a difference in my ES numbers by using the above mentioned "crimp" method vs just however they come out of the die and "plunk" test.

Actually using the Lee CFCD with 45acp my finished round size comes out to .475 (brass+ bullets) "crimping" them down to .470/.471 is between 1/2 and one full turn. About the same using a second seating die as a crimp die. They "plunk" in the chamber fine. By the way I've been loading since 1971, but that doesn't mean I know what the heck I'm doing anymore than anyone else. Still Learning. At least trying to.

[mikld]

I use my eyes. Maybe because I have been a machinist/mechanic all my life with a great part of that working with metal, I can see any flare left on a case mouth and double check with a plunk test. If a case is .002"-.003" over "ideal" case mouth diameter, it makes absolutely no difference as long as the round chambers correctly. Even without measuring one can take a straight edge and place it on the case, if it doesn't lie flat, there is some flare left. I have three 45 ACP guns and I have no idea what the case mouth diameter is and if I did measure and reset my dies for exactly .471", my handloads would not perform any better than my "good plunking, deflared" handloads... (how far from the case edge can I/should I measure? .001"? .005? Is a caliper good enough or should I use my blade mics? How do I factor in case wall thickness and how much does a chamfer, inside or outside, effect the measurement?)

Sometimes a newer reloader will ask a simple question and the answers will begin simple but morph into advanced reloading theory, and often juts add confusion...

BTW, I gave up on Lee's handgun FCD about 20 years ago. The one I owned now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon.

[RBHarter]

To take the KISS method to an alternative direction .
Grab a factory round .
Back the seater stem way out and turn the die in about half the threads .
Put the factory round in and run it up all the way .
Turn the die down to touch , just touch .
Let the factory ammo down , turn the die in 1/8-1/6 turn up .
Raise the ram and factory round to rest back out half of what you added and set the lock ring .
Now turn the seating stem down to soft stop .
Final adjustments may be needed to acct for individual wear , finish , and tooling .

At this point you should be very close to a factory setting if the die is a seat/crimp die .
If it you don't want any crimp at all back off from the first contact set up a half turn , set the lock ring there and adjust the seating stem .

None of this is important in a Dead Length seating die . Just screw it down close ram up firm contact with the shell holder and set seating depth .

Make an empty unprimed dummy cartridge with your bullet so that the dies may be reset for that set using the above if your bullet varies from the factory round .
Keep good notes about your settings for bullet X .