APP Success, Then Problems - Finally Disappointment

[klr]

After spending two weeks trying to get my APP working smoothly with 223 and 308 brass I gave up and have decided to send it back to Lee.

Before I do, I decided to try resizing 9mm brass. Man, what a difference. I used a standard Lyman resizing/decapping die and a light spray application of Lee resizing lube. I ran over 100 pieces through without a single problem, slowdown, hitch, misfeed, etc. It worked perfectly. So now I need to get a collator and four feed tubes for 9mm.

[GasGuzzler]

All i have done is 9X19.

I was in the middle of a LARGE run de-capping when my de-capping pin broke (due to a hidden rock inside a case). I guess I can put the de-cap die out of the swage set in the machine and keep going. Instead, yesterday I took it to work and ran some through the swage set to restore primer pocket dimensions. They were previously de-capped.

When I get the large amount of 9X19 done I will try some 5.56X45 if I have any un-prepped.

[Ranch Dog]

After spending two weeks trying to get my APP working smoothly with 223 and 308 brass I gave up and have decided to send it back to Lee.

I'm sorry your experience has been so bad.

I've moved through several rifle cartridges now; 303 British, 7.62x39, 218 Bee, 35 Rem, and started with the 25-20 Win yesterday.

The one thing that has come across loud to me is that once the Inserter has matted with the press, STOP THE RAM MOVEMENT. You don't have to worry about the case being centered (like you do with the Load-Master's Slider). The Case Inserter matting with the frame ensures alignment. At that point, any further movement of the ram causes considerable upward pressure on the tail end of the Slider. The pressure is transferred to the case and creates a tipping effect that can cause the case to bind in the shell holder slot and prevent the case from then being centered.



I feel strongly enough about stopping ram movement when the case inserter mates with the frame, that I'm going to come up with a physical block that can be attached to the column (at least one of them) that will limit further ram travel. I've had spring pressure created by movement beyond this point that stripped the Riser off the Slider.



The second thing that I think is critical is the Setscrew's adjustment. The instructions talk about adjustment of the screw for capturing a case, but it also affects how clean a case is released, tipping the top of the case to the left as it leaves). During one session, I finished my adjustments of the Setscrew, snapped a Riser on the Inserter, and started. I had all kinds of problems, nothing worked. I stopped and looked carefully at the Inserter/Riser and realized I had backed the Setscrew out enough to warp the Riser. Little things can influence performance.

Each change of cartridge has required a slight adjustment of the Setscrew. I would not have needed a change had I gone from 218 Bee to 25-20 Win, but the jump through the 35 Rem required the continuous adjustments. That was one of my musings about the one size of lego block fits all. It doesn't; it needs tweaking. I will probably end up with Inserters packaged for individual cartridges or a family of cartridges (218 Bee, 25-20 Win, & 32-20 Win).

[Ranch Dog]

I've also stopped worrying about a rifle collator or Multi-Tube feeder for my rifle case. I load up the tube and then start the press. The right hand is on the handle and the left hand is dropping a case into the tube with every stroke of the handle. It's almost hypnotic.

I did get a quote back on the 3D Rifle Collator that I found files for. $120 a copy. That's why I got rid of my 3D printer. When you looked at what the parts are actually costing you to build and the hours it takes to produce them, it is a waste of time.

[klr]

The Case Inserter matting with the frame ensures alignment.

I agree with you and I spent a lot of time adjusting and tweaking the case inserter. I have also shot the riser off a few times, so I'm going to go back and look at the relationship between the inserter and additional ram movement.

However,

Once in the shell holder, the shell holder determines fore and aft alignment. My cases are off center a significant amount. This picture is a 308 case from the side. Look at how the outside of the case mouth and the die rod are in line on the front side of the case. I can't see how any tweaking would bring the case forward (toward the operator) since the shell holder is fixed and the die rod is fixed by the press head. This is reason I think it needs to go back to Lee. If you can think of a way to fix this I'll give it a try since it will be a while before I send it back due to the Covid crunch at Lee.

[Ranch Dog]

Once in the shell holder, the shell holder determines fore and aft alignment.

Is your reference the front of the press? So, is the case leaning away from you or towards you?

In the picture, it looks like the reference is left to right; Inserter through case exit.

Not so. The shell holder is only a slot that the case passes through. Looking at the press, the slot controls the fore and aft alignment but the Inserter matting with the press's base determines whether the case is centered left to right. In that, the Inserter is designed to move cases by pressing against the outside diameter of the case and it stands to reason that an adjustment must be made to center a case because not all cases are of the same diameter. The last statement in the instructions talks of adjusting the setscrew. The adjustment is referencing the capture of the case, but what this is doing is adjusting the Inserter to the diameter of the case.

This is part of the reason why I ordered another Inserter assembly from Lee. I eliminated changing the jaws which are another adjustment based on case size with the object of getting the case centered.

Moving cases through the press, 25 Auto through the 303 British out to the 45 Auto (forgot that one), I can assure you that the Inserter needs fine adjustments of the setscrew to make it happen.

[klr]

Once in the shell holder, the shell holder determines fore and aft alignment.

Is your reference the front of the press? So, is the case leaning away from you or towards you?

Yes, I'm standing in front of the press. The case is too far away from me. I have to admit that I didn't use a square to check if the case is leaning or straight up but it's too far away.

In the picture, it looks like the reference is left to right; Inserter through case exit.

The camera is at the exit chute pointing towards the case slider. You can see the red riser behind it.

Looking at the press, the slot controls the fore and aft alignment

Yes, that is my main problem. I don't see how it has anything to do with the slider and its adjustment.

[Ranch Dog]

A young lady came out to shoot on my range this afternoon. As she was leaving, I was walking out loaded for an evening into the night of hog hunting. I asked her if she had been shooting a 5.56 and had she left her brass. She had so I swung by the range and found four cases in the grass.

When I got in I quickly set the APP up for decapping and swagging these cartridges. I did run them through the feeder. I set up the decapper per for a positive "punch" (shell holder contact plus half a turn in). I used the 22-30 Caliber Decapper set with the rod just a bit above the top nut. All four slicked right through the press with the primers falling into the bottle. Then, mounted the two dies of the Swagger and ran them through in a few seconds. Cases indexed perfectly with the Inserter and no hang up on the punch.

Four cases do not make a reloading session, I will search the grass for some more cases tomorrow. These are the four cases after their pass through the decapper. No noticeable flare. I wish I would had done a before and after with my pin gauge set. Brass is Frontier 5.56x45.



The swagging tool cut the bevel on the primer pocket.

[klr]

Thanks for trying that experiment.

You definitely got a good APP.

[Ranch Dog]

Last time that lady was here, she shot a 6.5 Grendel. I was working in the barn, and thought, "that's a 223". I hate to bug a shooter but would have set up a brass trap. I will look for some more today. I want to do the pin gauge measurements and more to help figure this out.