Enough Rifle?

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Enough Rifle?

Post by klr »

I've been culling whitetail deer for years and have experimented with a number of cartridges/bullets/rifles. My permits are for antlerless deer which can go up to maybe 200 lbs for a big mature soybean-fed doe.

My maximum distance is 250 yards.

So the question is: Using a good bullet and staying within my size/distance restrictions, is a 223 Remington "enough rifle" to do the job?

I'd be interested to hear about your experience.
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by Ranch Dog »

Based on the hunters that have used the cartridge on my place, mostly youth hunters, I would say no. Even in the hands of an experienced hunter, I've seen too many lost animals. Our brush is different than your soybeans, we cannot find the deer, and most we get to are still alive when we get there.
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by larryw »

Yup, I have to mirror what RD told you. NO...
My personal favorite & minimum is .243Win, throwing 100 grain pills pretty quick.
Absolutely devastating on Whitetail, small slug, mild recoil.

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I moisten a bit of cedar with a little bit with water & toss it in my car, I love the smell.
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by RBHarter »

Partition , GMX , or X types might be ok . The big thing is that 22 cal doesn't have the energy unless the bullet stays together . Not really a design function of 22 cal expanding bullets . The 243 doesn't really excite me either after a poor result with a load that should have delivered but didn't . It did give us a dead deer but I wasn't crazy about a 50 yd run with 2 well placed in the vitals . My guess is that the 100 gr Game King was intended for 6mm Rem and 240 Weatherby not the 243 . A 100 gr in a 250 Savage , 257 Roberts would be better .

In the 223 class I would look for a 6.8 SPCII . It runs 95-130 gr weights in 270 cal up to 2400 fps . A 120 SST will carry 1000# past 175 yd from what I've seen here in Arkansas I would have no reservations using it to 200 yd . MSRs and uppers aren't hard to get but bolt guns are few and far . There is a work around now for the bolts using 22 Nosler brass in a 223 platform and die formed to 6.8 with a rebated rim . But that becomes a hand load only thing then .
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by AlaskanGuy »

nope.. I dont think so either... I dont even shoot our dog sized Sitka Blacktails with a headshot in 223... i like the insurance and forgiveness of a bit more lead....
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by klr »

Thanks for sharing your experience, guys. I agree with Larryw - the .243 Win has been my favorite and given me the most consistent results. The only thing I don't like is the muzzle blast.

About three weeks ago I agreed with everyone's collective assessment of the 223, but had no direct experience.

So... I had to try it for myself. I figured I'd start with small deer and close shots and go from there. I'm using 65gr Sierra Gamekings at 2900 fps.

Results have amazed me. I'm 6 for 6. Longest shot was just short of 250 yards and one doe was one of my largest ever. Three went less than 25 yards, one about 75 yards, and two dropped in their tracks.

Yes, I had to be careful with my shots. I made sure I had a good broadside or frontal shot.

My results this year lead me to believe that the amount of energy an animal retains is more important than the amount of energy you can blow out the far side. At least in the case of the deer I cull.

RBHarter - I don't know if you can blame the 243 for your deer running 50 yards. I shot a small doe in the vitals with a 358 Winchester. 200gr jsp @2500 fps. She ran for over 200 yards. It was a good shot.
Last month my son shot a doe with a 6.5 Creedmoor. 140gr factory jsp ammo. Distance was about 100 yards. She took off running. After about 50 yards she stopped. I figured my son missed and I shot it with my 243. It jumped and ran another 25 yards. I ribbed my boy about needing his old man to clean up his messes, but when we looked at the deer, it had two holes about 1.5" apart right in the vitals. So that deer took a 140 gr bullet and ran 50 yards and then another 95 gr BT bullet and went another 25 yards! Sometimes weird things happen and some animals just have a strong will to go on.
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by Macd »

I always find these discussions interesting. With proper shot placement where the central nervous system is impacted the .223 will kill any animal. Every seen a farmer kill a cow with a 22? I would not use it for medium game such as deer because that level of accuracy is too dificult in many hunting situations.. A larger calibre with a bullet that causes significant shock and organ damage would be my choice.
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by Kaiser »

The question of what gun to use for a particular game animal, near and far, has filled my gun safes to capacity over the last 5 decades. I suppose I could have spent my money more wisely had I settled for one or two rifles, shotguns, and pistols to cover my hunting environment; but what fun would that be? Besides, In a gun, I have purchased something tangible that is useful, practical, and life sustaining. If I would have spent my money on other forms of entertainment, it would have been but a faint memory with (maybe) a picture of where and how my money was spent or wasted. Plus, why would I need to reload if I only had a couple of cartridges to shoot?

All kidding aside, I was never a fan of the .223 and remember when it replaced the M14 in my service. A smaller, lighter rifle in which one could carry twice as many rounds to feed it was its "draw"; and rapid (auto) fire was its "curse". I believe it was credited with 1 kill per 1000 rounds when it was first introduced in Vietnam! Well, it is not so light weight now in some of the specialized "tactical" rigs, but still shoots small .224 diameter bullets! As has been said, it is very effective when the "right" spot is hit at a yardage where it has a chance to penetrate deer size game to destroy a major organ. The only bullet I personally would depend on to cause major damage and penetration would be a FMJ bullet currently used by the military (not legal in most states!). There are so many better cartridges for the purpose that do not recoil that much, but does not require exceptional marksmanship to work every time. My .02
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by RBHarter »

I don't blame the cartridge but the over built bullet . I accept full responsibility for that choice . It was in my prechrono days . I would have expected the bullet to break up not dime exit with a load designed around a 150-250 shot and taking a 65-75 yd shot . Had I revisited the oppertunity I would have chosen a 90 gr version .
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Re: Enough Rifle?

Post by Macd »

There is an intetesting article on the Ballistics Research website on the development of the 5.56/.223. Seems the early slower twist rifles were better killers as the marginal stability of the 55 grain bullet led to tumbling after impact causing a larger wound channel. This effect disappeared in faster twist versions. For years the most popular moose round in Canada was a MkVII cartridge in a .303 LE as it caused the same tumbling effect. Unfortunately this apparently led people to believe that all service FMJ bullets such as those used in the '06 and 7.62 NATO were equally effective. They weren't amd most jurisdictions up here ban their use for big game.
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