410 Reloading

Discussions covering the components and techniques of reloading for your scattergun; be it buckshot, shot, or slugs.
Tonerboy1
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by Tonerboy1 »

I ended up putting up the money and getting a Mec Jr. Believe me it's worth it for reloading 410's. But if you have found you need to roll crimp for the AR platform then the Mec may not be the route to go. Roll crimp hulls typically are shorter than folded over crimps (after fired)since the fold opens up and a roll is only rolled back a fraction of an inch. Roll crimping is usually done with a roll crimp tool (drill press) and a clamping tool outside of a loader. That leaves you only using the decapping/Primeing station and the powder drop station. The BPI Thug Slug wad and Slug you have to insert by hand anyway, then roll crimp which again is not on the Mec itself. Most of what you need to do to load a slug with a roll crimp can be done without any shell press...just a roll crimp tool and clamp. BPI sells both.
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by Ranch Dog »

I've done a lot of 12 Gauge shooting this year, and one thing that I've looked at in depth is roll vs. the folded crimp. From my experience, hands down, the fold's MOA performance across several slug designs is significantly better than a roll crimp. The reusable condition of a "home" rolled hull also suffers. Home rolling, drill press or drill, along with the tools available, is not close to a factory roll.

The only issue with a folded crimp is solving the component stack height. That can be done with an assortment of card wads.
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by Ranch Dog »

I think you have done right with the MEC. The only way to go.
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by larryw »

Ranch Dog wrote:I think you have done right with the MEC. The only way to go.
Agreed 100%. My old MEC Super 600 is sweet.
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by W.R.Buchanan »

]I have been loading .410 and 12 ga Slugs alot over the last couple of years. I have some things that might help here.

For 410's I only load Winchester AA's because I bought 1000 of hulls off the http://www.Trapshooters.com site along with my Pacific DL266 Loader. It makes perfect reloaded .410's and I had to give $250 for it. Worth every penny as I have Reloaded those same 1000 hulls 1 1/2 times so far. It makes perfect crimps every time as long as you align the previous crimps with the pre-crimp tool. Not hard once you figure it out.

For .410 Slugs I roll crimp and really you need to be using new hulls for this as previously folded hulls don't roll crimp that well. Or you can cut down 3" hulls to 2.5" and roll them. I have only loaded BPI Thug Slugs in the .410's.

Same goes for 12 ga.Slugs. My accuracy has been good (see pic) from my Hastings Rifled Barrel on the A5 New Rio Hulls were .11 each and not worth wasting nice STI slugs on anything else. On the reload they get used for Lee or Lyman slugs and that is a one way trip.

I have shot several Tactical Shotgun Classes at Front Sight in the last year and I always stay after class and pickup the nice fired Federal Blue Low Recoil Hulls. These reload the best of all hulls I have tried. great for Lee and Luman Slugs.

Lots of these hulls have been stepped on and don't look that good so I wash them in a Clothes Bag to get them clean and then use a reconditioning tool to straiten them back out.

However what I found was that just rotating the tool in the mouth of the hull was NOT giving me the results I wanted. So I started playing around and found that if you use a heat gun and blow the hot air directly on the hull while it is rotating with the tool, and just shove the hull onto the tool all the way, and then quickly remove it,,, the hull goes back to nearly perfect every time and it doesn't really matter if the hull was squashed flat or not. The extra heat softens the plastic enough so that the hull goes back to its original shape as it is formed by the tool.

Obviously you can apply too much heat, in which case the hull melts,,, so You've kinda gotta figure it out. No big deal to waste one or two. You'll figure it out quickly as you can't really hold onto a hull that is too hot! Good idea to wear gloves as I wore a hole in one of my fingers the first time.

You can see the difference in the before and after pic. If you don't have a real heat gun (harbor freight) you could probably get by with an old hair dryer.

In the end these hulls roll crimp exactly like a new hull.

Randy
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by Ranch Dog »

Randy, the hot air is a great idea! Which tool are you using? I have BPI's skiving tool and for really bad hull mouths I would run the Lee Sizing "Ring" over the hull's mouth and then use skiv it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to know what crimper you settled in with as well?

I'm going to sell my MEC Slugger, need to get around to it. Nothing wrong with it, but I can do what I need to do with the Load-All II. I had hope that you did not need to fiddle with the fold/crimping stations with small variations in hull length, but you do, and the fine adjustments on the hull have to come through the course adjustments on the MEC cam. It can drive you dog chit crazy. The Lee is straightforward to resolve by using hard card wads to eight stop the movement of the tool head or raise the hull into the die.

Honestly, my slug shooting dropped to zero when not selected for the hunt units that require slug guns. I went back to load work on the rifles that had been waiting.
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:I'm going to sell my MEC Slugger, need to get around to it. Nothing wrong with it, but I can do what I need to do with the Load-All II. I had hope that you did not need to fiddle with the fold/crimping stations with small variations in hull length, but you do, and the fine adjustments on the hull have to come through the course adjustments on the MEC cam. It can drive you dog chit crazy. The Lee is straightforward to resolve by using hard card wads to eight stop the movement of the tool head or raise the hull into the die.
What I do like about my MEC Slugger is the [urlhttp://creativereloadingsolutions.com/shop/ultimate-knockout-2/]Creative Reloading Solutions Ultimate Knockout[/url] that I added. It goes a long way in reforming the hull. It is worth the $20 and I would recommend the 410 KnockOut be added to Tonerboy's press as the 600 does nothing to correct the hull.
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by W.R.Buchanan »

Michael: I mainly use the BPI Roll Crimper but I also got the one off Reloaders Network which does a nice job and leaves a Radius on the hull mouth instead of the square edge of the BPI Tool. The BPI tool is easier for me to get to work consistently the other tool works OK.

I made the "Reconditioning Tool" in the pics and it is 3/4" Dia. which means when you push the hot hull all the way onto it and then pull it off the mouth of the hull shrinks down to @.730 ID as it cools.

You can see in the pic how the hull mouth is nice and round and that hull had been stepped on and was hugely deformed.

I quit buying Walmart Winchester ($21.74/100) birdshot and switched to Walmart Federal (same price,) because Winchester is over crimping their hulls which flares the end of the hull and causes problems unloading the A5. The last round always hangs up when you are manually unloading the gun. The Federal hulls have a nice radius on the crimp, and feed and unload perfectly.

I really don't understand why Winchester hasn't figured this out. It would be a simple adjustment to the final crimp station. Shows poor QC and I will be talking to them about it at SHOT in January

This tapered finish to the roll crimp is something I learned about from my DL366 loader. The last station on that machine is a tool that forms the taper on the front of the hull and it makes really nice ammo.

You can see the Poor Crimps on the two Winchester Hulls in the first pic,the one on the left is even buckled. The Winchester Hull in the second pic (left one) is actually not super bad, I have seen many that the flare looked like a funnel, but notice the Federal Hull is perfect.

Randy
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by W.R.Buchanan »

You still have Pigs to shoot don't you?

I have been watching "Pigman the Series" on the Outdoor Channel lately and I could really get along with that guy!

He is all about Pig Eradication and some of the places they shoot are totally infested with pigs. They are shooting from the Ground, from Helicopters, and even Airboats. Quite entertaining!!!

He is all over Oklahoma, and Texas, so I figure you should know about him. Coming to a pig near you.

Randy
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Re: 410 Reloading

Post by dbosman »

What I recommend, and it's getting harder as the conversion kits fade away, is to purchase a used, cheap, MEC 600, and the .410 conversion kit. After the conversion, sell the old parts for what you can get for them.
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