Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Discussions covering the components and techniques of reloading for your scattergun; be it buckshot, shot, or slugs.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

Well, BPI goofed up my latest order of column wads. I called them this morning, they never sent the order. That probably is a deal killer for me using the Lee slug on the East Lake Hunt. I'm going to be gone for a bit and then whitetail hunting starts here. I probably will not have time to go any further.

I did hear from the Lightfield big dog. A really interesting, in-depth reply concerning the shooting with the two different hull lengths in a 3" chamber. In a nutshell, it should not matter, but from my end, it is not working out that way. He suggested I expend some ammo to see if the 2¾" ammo accuracy improves. He also suggested, in that I'm a reloader with tools, roll crimp the 3" shells a bit more to get them to fit the magazine if possible. At $2.50 a shot, I'm probably not going to do either and just shoot the Marlin as a single shot.

I did have some time to work on the column stack calculator, putting in a bit of logic to make selections easier. It is working out.

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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by GasGuzzler »

I'm out on $2.50 per shot.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

GasGuzzler wrote:I'm out on $2.50 per shot.
On a regular basis, me too, and that is the why behind figuring out the Lee slug. My cost, using the Lee slug, for everything within the hull is 30¢. The Lee slug needs to be cast with pure lead, and even if you had to buy that lead from Rotometals ($2.85/lb), the cost of reloading would be 47¢/round.

I had read the email from Lightfield on my phone which is the app view, but when I went back to it last night on my laptop, I must say that the response I received from Randy Fritz was the most thought out and through I have ever received from anyone in the shooting/reloading industry. I could see where he had forwarded my message to another requesting a telephone contact to discuss the material that I had offered before he made a response.

Based on his effort, I decided to follow up on his suggestions. First up was to roll crimp the three-inch ammo. I chucked up the BPI roll crimper in my drill press and in no time had adjusted three hulls to fit inside the 512's magazine. That effort didn't take any effort at all. It also gave me a hull OAL that I will need for the folded crimp in front of the Lee slug.

Mr. Friztz also suggested that I needed to shoot through the poor groups with the change from the 3" to the 2¾ ammo. He said that a different propellant and lube within the propellant is used and I would see vertical stringing between the shoot. He indicated that what I might be seeing in the bore is plastic, not lead, even though it looks like the first. I believe him because he said I would see vertical stringing and I had not mentioned the characteristics of why the MOA of my groups was so large. It was vertical stringing.

Further, when I switch to the Lee slug, he said I would see the same thing which I have. He suggested that I shoot at least eight shots with any switch. Also, I need to stop cleaning my barrel, and it would take fewer rounds between ammo swaps to see good my desired MOA performance. He said that he shoots about 3500 rounds of his different offerings a year and only cleans his gun when he retires it for the winter.

My lament that this should not be any different than reloading for a large bore cast bullet rifle did not go unnoticed, and he replied that they are working on it as they would like to get away from sabots and component stacks with the hull.

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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

Here are some pictures of shorting the 3" roll crimp (2.760") to fit the confines of the Marlin Slugmaster magazine (maximum shell OAL of 2.675"). I'm using the BPI Roll Crimper on my drill press, rather than a hand drill, to maintain a specific hull OAL. This work does not affect the depth that the sabot is seated at, as it is seated deep, it just melts the plastic at the crimp.

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In that, I haven't gotten to shooting many Lee slugs because of the delay in getting column wads, but the 3" hulls with a folded crimp should fit as the SAAMI spec OAL for the hull with the fold is 2.655'! This has caused me to ponder the Marlin and its short magazine. These "rifles" are twenty years old, and the use of sabots has grown during that period, so I no longer think this was a design flaw on Marlin's part. I've shot slugs at various times in my life, in smooth bores, and they always had the folded crimp. As a note, the barrel of my Rossi Single Shot of near current manufacturer was roll stamped "Sabots Only".

Another thing I did yesterday, is run 100 clear Cheddite hulls through my vibrating case cleaner using the Lyman Corn Cob Plus. 1:30 minutes later they are clean and clear as new.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

I also have the 3" spacer figured out for the Load-All II. A length of 3/4" PVC spaced on the 8-segment crimp folder.

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All I need is my BPI order and some luck on the loads!
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by larryw »

Hang in there Michael, we got faith in 'ya. +corn
A day late & A dollar short? Story of my life +guns
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by GasGuzzler »

No offense to RD but this proves anyone with intelligence and TWTW will. It also proves no matter how smart we've (that's a plural slightly possessive pronoun) become, there's always someone that can give you knowledge.

That's why we keep coming here to read. I've never been more fascinated in something I'll likely never do.

Please don't take that as a crap on your work here as it's pretty awesome.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

Thanks for your comments GG, I appreciate them. Whether I hunt with the Lee's are not, I will continue with the one ounce Lee slug until I can find some acceptable accuracy with it.

I believe there is a single factor with the success of the Lee slug; you must do whatever it takes to stop wad petal loss. When searching through posts on other forums, those that understand this win and those who don't, give up. You can expand the search out further to the Lyman Foster; Lee is a Foster with a key and Lyman Shuttlecock designs, and it is the same thing. The petals must remain on the wad and not be torn or eroded. The simple solution is to trim them, but they must uniform. Through my work, it seems like some wads can be compromised when trimmed. I probably need to record more details with the trimming as I think this can be related to thickness, the total diameter of the slug and wad petals still must be .001" to .002" over bore diameter.[hr]Mr. Fritz of Tar-Hunt was correct, both lengths of the Lightfield Hybred Elites shot to the same POI after just a few shots each. I haven't gone out beyond 50-yards yet, but the accuracy at this range is next to impossible to score an MOA with as you are left with a single large hole after a few shots. The lesson here is that when I start in again with the Lee is to send at least six-shots down range before I judge the load, let the barrel condition to the components being sent down it.[hr]Mr. Fritz also said to ease into roll crimping the hulls for magazine fit as the roll will increase shot pressure. I decided to shoot the 2.675" rolled shells from the chair and Caldwell Steady Pod that I use in my popup. Holy crap, despite having a hefty grip on the rifle, this big guy took a hell of a hit. This morning, some 18-hours later, my neck and shoulder still hurt! The slug did pass exactly through the bullseye at 50-yards. I moved over to the Stable Table and Lead Sled and fired the other two, and they touched the first hole. The brass on the base on these hulls had lightly imprinted the features of the bolt face. Hmm.

I had three rounds that I had rolled to 2.655" so I sent the first downrange. It passed through the same hole as the others had but the recoil was significant even with the Lead Sled. Mr. Fritz said that with the roll crimping there would be a point where outside diameter of the roll would increase, but as long as the shell chambered, the Marlin would be good. He did say that the Marlin would not be safe for use if I had to force the shell into the chamber. All the shells dropped straight into the chamber without resistance.

After the first shot of the shorter cartridge, I knew I wasn't going to shoot the other two. When I opened the bolt, the hull did not extract, and I could easily see all the bolt face features pressed into the hull base. I walked down and to the shop, brought back a dowel, and knocked the hull out. I intended to shoot the 2¾ Hybred Elites out to 100-yards as I think that is the ammo I will use, but as I was handling the rifle, I felt a shift in something. Investigating, I found the forward screw lose that secures the base to the mount. Looking at it closer, the threads in the aluminum base hole were gone. A steel screw in an aluminum base, the screw was over torqued.

That's on me. I had not gone back through the base to mount screws with the torque screwdriver since I bought the rifle. Thought about it with when I switched the scope out the other day, but I was pushing time to get some shooting done.

MidwayUSA had both a new base and mount, so they are on the way with two-day shipping. I'm going to replace it all and be done with it.

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So, there you have it for this installment of the Ranch Dog Marlin 512 Slugmaster saga! The weird thing is all that took place within an hour![hr]Oh, so I end up with two of the short rolled 3" shells. After shooting that final shot, I threw $5 worth of ammo in my lake.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

Shame on me! The base to receiver screws, all four were loose! It is amazing that the Lightfields have shot as well as they have. I doubt that final shot did that. This is really on me as the slug work has been piecemeal and not worked through like I would a centerfire rifle. Poor little Marlin Slugmaster :(

As far as the Slugmaster goes, numerous gun reports say, through testing, great rifled slug platform and will give the present day standard, the Savage 212, a run for its money. Well after this, I will treat it with proper respect.
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Re: Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

Post by Macd »

Judging from your reports on recoil loose screws are not surprising. :lol:

Glad you are getting it solved. No wall is so tall that a determined person can't eventually get over it. Thanks for sharing the climb.
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