Oh Boy, Gonna Get Busy With the Lee Slugs

[Ranch Dog]

This issue has given me several enjoyable hours of internet browsing. Quite an education.

I'm getting schooled for sure. I'm bound and determined to figure this out with the Lee slugs. It might not be in time for my hunt, but I'm not going to let up until it is over. I took some pictures of the stock work and some other things. I'm running out of steam and will post all in the morning. I also ordered some more of the 3" Lightfield Elites from Bud's and will go into the why of that decision in the morning as well.

[Ranch Dog]

I also sent Lightfield a message concerning 2/34" shells in a 3" chamber. I haven't heard back from them yet.

"I'm shooting a Marlin 512 SlugMaster that is a 12 Gauge with a 3" chamber but was cursed with a magazine that can't quite handle a 3" hull (a known problem with the 512). Your Hybred Elite 3″ 12 ga, fed single shot shoots into a single hole at 50 yards. I just ordered a bunch of boxes of the same ammo from Buds, but in 2 3/4" to allow magazine feed, but started wondering if that 1/4" of freebore I've induced with the shorter hull presents any consideration?"

Honestly, this is bugging the heck out of me, but it might be for not. My initial shooting with the 2 3/4" ammo did not deliver a reasonable MOA compared to the 3". In its defense, there was a lot of shooting with the Lee slugs with the various wads eroding in the bore (there is a Shooter's Choice product just for this that has been down the barrel now).

The "induced" freebore I referenced in my email to Lightfield can be visualized here.



The roll crimp of the 3" unfolds right at the end of the leade, against the lands of the barrel. Hull thickness is about .048" so with the 2 3/4" shell the sabot travels a .25" unsupported across the freebore. I can make an argument that it is immaterial in that the column wad is still in the hull until the sabot engages the rifling. Still, I see a chance for misalignment. The only way I can examine what happens is to shoot a sample against one another.

This is a good, short video of what is in the Lightfield ammo and how it works as told by the big dog at Lightfield.

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

Here is why I'm considering the 3" vs. the 2 3/4". Check out the velocity difference the 3" affords vs. that of the 2 3/4".



280 FPS. That translates into a 3628 FPE at the muzzle vs. 2548 FPE for the 2 3/4". If this were for whitetail, the 3" would be overkill but a nilgai is a tough critter that must be anchored hard, or it will be lost. Unfortunately, I have not found any 3" data for the Lee slugs, and all the loads have been anemic compared to this performance. As a note, the Lightfield ammo is designed not to exit any of the intended game it was designed for. Another interesting feature, they provide sight in data that allows all the various offerings within the series to shoot at the same POA/POI, only the usable range changes.

The problem with the 3" is that my Slugmaster will be a single shot. I have all the Marlin catalogs since the introduction of the 444 Marlin, and they make a great reference for slight changes to the models. The Slugmaster was introduced in 1996, that is the year my rifle was made, and there was no reference to magazine restrictions. In '97, there was a note that Winchester sabots with a roll crimp would not function in through the magazine and the rifle would be a single shot. Starting in '98, they changed the notice that all 3" roll crimped hulls would require the rifle be used as a single shot. The catalog also offers the tidbit that the 512 was specifically designed for saboted ammo (the Lee slugs falls into that category).



I cannot find a reference as to the barrel length used with the Lightfield performance but I will chronograph both lengths of ammo. Same with the Lee data, no barrel length listed, and so far the suggested Lee loads have been shot through my 21" barrel at a 5% velocity loss.

My hunting will be from a popup blind in a dense ebony and mesquite forest with maximum visibility of about 70 to 75 yards. It is a very medieval place to hunt, durn near spooky after dark. If not spooked, a nilgai is going to be cruising through the thicket at a slow, steady pace, eating beans from both types of trees as it travels. If the Lee had the accuracy, I would not hesitate to shoot the nilgai centered in the neck, immediately below the jawline as it extends to grab a bean. I had a friend going on a first-time hunt, a rifle hunt, with a rifle that would be considered marginal. I told him to do the same shot; he did, the nilgai dropped and did not wiggle.

I also changed the scope out from a Banner 1.5-4.5x32 to a Weaver 1-3X22. The area where the Banner's tube flares out for the exit bell was catching the very forward edge of an ejecting hull and flipping it back into the action. The straight tube of the Weaver seems to have corrected that.

Here is what the rifle looks like now.

I'm just about done working on the stock, there was a lot of forend pressure against the barrel. I'm treating it just like a rifle. Going back out to put it together now.

Don't know if I did the right thing or not, but there was a great amount of pressure forward of the recoil lug. There is none now. I figured there are more pump and semi-auto dedicated guns than bolt action guns and they have no pressure on the barrel other than the magazine support.





Sorry, this is more of a blog than a post, just got behind and wanted to get the info up to date. It will eventually wrap back around to the Lee slug. Right now, for those that read this down the road, I would suggest that you compare quality factory ammo against your Lee reloads and not accept it's good enough until you find what your slug gun is capable of.

[horseman]

I am very interested in the difference floating the barrel makes in accuracy. In reading a lot of "stuff" on the web about issues with accuracy and shooting slugs (bolt action rifles) nobody has ever mentioned floating a barrel or bedding an action to see if it would help. Honestly after reading about the accuracy that "most" have with these rifles it kinda cooled my desire for one. Of course there were a few claims made by "that fat kid" that I disregarded as the majority were pretty close in comparison.

[Ranch Dog]

The shooting did not take long. Two of the Lightfield 3" slugs to get on the bull at 50-yards. I started that by looking down the barrel and then aligning the crosshairs on the new Weaver. This is a screenshot of the targeting software measurements.



Groups decreased from a 1.6" to 1.3", but don't know if that was the barrel/stock work. Last time my basic Caldwell Chrony would not pick up the Lightfield sabot so this time I tried the Labradar. No surprise, it didn't. I went at got my Caldwell G2, and it picked up the shots without issue. They averaged 1542 FPS with a 7 FPS ES. That sure is a long ways off from the box's 1730 FPS. Almost 11% lower. I suspect they are using a 26" for the velocity claims. 92º out there today, not comfortable at all.

Next up was the 2 3/4" Lightfields. End up shooting only one shot. I thought it missed the target backstop, but it hit it centered about 18" low. It was out of sight on the target cam, below the grass. The velocity of the shot was the same 11% low mentioned above, 1300 FPS out of the 1450 FPS claimed. The bore was coated with a thin lead coating. That is all that I needed to see; I'm not going to go any further.



So, the hunt will go to the Lightfield 3" ammo as a single shot for now. I'm going to switch from being a shotshell reloader and go on my own as a handloader.

I think the freebore, the difference between a 2 3/4 shell and that of a 3" matters. It is airspace that the projectile must jump across unsupported. Accuracy depends on how well the lateral axis is aligned with the centerline of the bore. No different than a rifle.

I also think it matters with the Lee slugs and the fact that they take the ride in a column wad. Since I started shooting 2 3/4" shells to accommodate the magazine requirements, I have had very few wad petals survive the trip down the bore. I believe they are being folded back in the freebore. Once that starts, the slug is unsupported and might not be achieving any rotation as it travels down the barrel. That would explain the minute of ruler groups I've seen from that ammo.

Well that's not good.Why call it a slug wad then say to use shot data?

I believe what they mean by using "shot data" is to use the same recipe for a given weight whether slug or shot. Does that make sense? Treat shot or slug the same as to weight? Any better?.....

And that is exactly where I'm going to go to now. I'm going to find one ounce, 3", magnum loads using International and give them a try with the Lee slug. I still need to wait on the Lightning 078 column wads or trim the petals on the Federal 12S3 wads and see where I get.

My Lee loads with International, despite the poor groups, was generating 1485 FPS with HS6, I bet I can match the 1542 FPS of the Lightfield and put the Lee in the running if the accuracy is there. Back to searching for loads.

[Ranch Dog]

I went crazy in my storage room, but I finally found my Lee 3" Gauge Deluxe Loader. Even put a couple of shells together. The good thing about the Loader vs. the Load-All II is that if the column stack isn't working out, you cannot close the shell. Unlike the Load-All with a 3", you end up crushing it as there isn't a stop on the stroke.

It's new in the box, had it for years but never used it.



Wish I had a .410 Loader as I have two that I feed. For what they go for, I will buy a MEC 600 Jr. single stage. It's cheaper.

Sure wish my last Ballistic Products order would arrive. They are the slowest supplier I buy from.

[Ranch Dog]

I would love to try a roundball, but the rules for the hunt on the Refuge specifically state that the firearm must be rifled and the projectile a slug.

[Ranch Dog]

I'm sure many are getting tired of this, but I suspect it is for my own need to think this through. First thing this morning, I wanted to see if it is worth continuing (ballistically) with the Lee one ounce slug?



I think so after running the numbers! At my maximum range of 75-yards, they are identical when considering velocity but the additional weight of the Lightfield carries. I still intend to bump the velocity of the Lee so it would be worth seeing what can be gained. If I can achieve 1550 FPS at the muzzle with the Lee that will bring the 75-yard FPE to 1250.

All I got to do is get the Lee to shoot inside 3 MOA with a minimum of a 3-shot group. Repeatably. As a note, the Lightfield 1.3" group I posted at 50 yards is 2.987 MOA. The Lees have to get busy!

[akuser47]

I am enjoying your trial and tribulations on this task you have taken on. I am learning as well. Its a good read I am rooting for you. Defiantly keep us posted I am hoping for a happy ending.

[jdl447]

Shotguns

post.jpeg

[larryw]

I'm sure not tired of this.. Very interesting to me & I don't load shotgun?
As always, Thanks a bunch RD, & keep up the good work for us " Lee Low Lifes "