Latest Slug Shooting

Discussions covering the components and techniques of reloading for your scattergun; be it buckshot, shot, or slugs.
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Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Ranch Dog »

The results from this topic: Load-All II & 3" Shells

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On to 75 and 100 yards.
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Kaiser »

RD - those are some really good groups! I have a pretty good source book that claims that because of the "wad" surrounding the slug, velocities register on a chronograph about 100fps less than actual slug velocity. (Something about the "shadowing" of the wad across the screens.) Do you know if there is any truth to this "phenomenon" or is it just an "old reloaders tale?" Anyway, I'm interested in trying your Blue Dot load with my 7/8 oz Lee slug. Thanks, Kaiser
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Ranch Dog »

Kaiser wrote:Do you know if there is any truth to this "phenomenon" or is it just an "old reloaders tale?" Anyway
Good morning, Kaiser! I would think the phenomenon falls under the "old reloaders tale." I've read plenty of articles about slug performance where chronographed values were referenced and also talked with ammo manufacturers and this has never come up. What I have noticed is that most published data (rather than test results) and factory ammo use a 26" barrel. What I have read is that slugs take a hit by the inch. When using published data, I expect the 21" barrel on my Marlin 512 to be about 100 FPS slower. With all the shooting I do, I feel the loss is about 20 FPS per inch and that might have something to do with the tale.

The data for the Hammerhead with the 40-grains of Blue Dot listed 1475 FPS. So, my results did not surprise me.
Kaiser wrote:I'm interested in trying your Blue Dot load with my 7/8 oz Lee slug. Thanks, Kaiser
I've worked a little with the 7/8 oz Lee, but I haven't found a wad that it likes. It's .545" length just disappears into a wad cup which causes both crimp issues and wad petal wear.
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Kaiser »

RD - thanks for the info. I have a box of 16ga overshot cards that should adjust the "wad column" for the lighter slug - hopefully! For some reason, my 20" slug barreled (smooth bore) 870 Rem shoots the 7/8oz slug more accurately than the 1oz. In factory rounds, I've tried Rem, Win, Fed, and Browning (Win?), and the Browning 7/8oz (old item) was by far the most accurate. I've experimented with 1oz Lee slugs until I finally gave up, traded the mold, and went back to the 7/8oz Lee slug. My 870 BTW is one of the older 2 3/4" chambered "Wing Master" models I used to use for skeet, which may have something to do with its preference (?).
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by W.R.Buchanan »

Sorry to be gone for so long but I finally got to shoot some groups yesterday with my new slugs.

I used 2 different guns a M500 with a 24" rifled barrel and my Browning A5 with the Hastings Rifled barrel.

All groups were shot at 50 yards with Open Sights on Rifled Barrels.

The 3 shot group was one of the first I shot from the Mossberg 500 and I was somewhat impressed. 3 shots in 1.625 x .75" group was OK. I shot a bunch thru a Magneto Speed Chrono for an average of 1180 fps. 20 gr of Green Dot in new Rio Hulls Roll Crimped with the BPI Crimper.

I also shot a bunch of Lyman Slugs loaded in O/F Federal Blue Hulls. They were useless and generated nothing that could be called a group at an average of 1140 fps, with 18 gr of Green Dot Roll crimped.

All the rounds looked very nice before firing and the hulls all unwound nicely with only a couple that will need some attention before being reloaded. However the Rio Hulls were filthy indicating not enough pressure to get the Green Dot to burn clean. seen this in trap loads before.

Factory Federal Low Recoil Slugs were completely useless in this gun as the rounds were all over the place and mostly off target.

I have shot these in my M500 with the Vang Comped Barrel and gotten excellent accuracy of 1 x 1.5 at 50 yards, however from the rifled barrel they were useless. Also similar performance with the A5 with the smoothbore barrel .

My takeaway from this is that Regular Factory Foster Style Rifled Slugs don't work well in Rifled Barrels. YMMV

Next was the A5 with Hastings Rifled Barrel. First three shots were a tight Cloverleaf .5 x .875! 2 more fell right in with the others.total 1.5 x 1.0! I was impressed! These would easily be usable for hunting anything non dangerous. Results on 100 yard Dirt Clods were encouraging and devastating.

I want to bump the velocity up just over 1200 fps average which should come easily with 23 gr of Unique, keep in mind these are 550 gr / 1 1/4 oz. Slugs and the impact is going to be devastating, and since the accuracy appears to be very good so far these should be a viable product when loaded by the end user.

My big takeaway from this exercise was that the Hastings Barrel is alot better than the Mossberg Barrel. Hastings barrel has a 2 3/4 chamber and the Mossberg has a 3" chamber so that jump to the forcing cone might be the thing robbing accuracy from the M500.

Anyway more to come on this and here's some pics.

Randy
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Ranch Dog »

Your work looks excellent, Randy! Your slug is going to be a great thumper. They are going to wear you out at FS! Oh, forgot, no reloaded ammo.

The roll on your hulls show a nice, even expansion after the shot. There are only a couple of the clear hulls that are buggered. What tool are you using? Are you using a drill or drill press? If the latter, what model and speed?
W.R.Buchanan wrote:My big takeaway from this exercise was that the Hastings Barrel is alot better than the Mossberg Barrel. Hastings barrel has a 2 3/4 chamber and the Mossberg has a 3" chamber so that jump to the forcing cone might be the thing robbing accuracy from the M500.
That is where I'm at. My M500 and S512 both have 3" chambers and your statement rules. There is no sense in sticking a 2¾" shell in the chamber. That ¼" jump across an unsupported chamber, ruins it as far as I'm concerned.

Over the next couple of days, I plan to get the 75 & 100-yard done with STI Hammerhead and also see what the Lee slug does with a heavy load of Blue Dot.
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by W.R.Buchanan »

MIchael: I used a BPI roll crimper to do all of these. I do them on my Bridgeport as it has a vise with a flat surface that I can sit the hull held in a home made gripper on top of . It is a glorified Drill Press and I use 200 rpm's as the speed,,, which may not be available unless you get a 12 speed Drill Press.

I set the depth stop on the first hull, then make all the rest the same. If you try to push a crimp father down it will buckle right at the top of the crimp. The crimp has to be done in one smooth push down to the stop in order to come out right.

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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:
Kaiser wrote:Do you know if there is any truth to this "phenomenon" or is it just an "old reloaders tale?" Anyway
Good morning, Kaiser! I would think the phenomenon falls under the "old reloaders tale." I've read plenty of articles about slug performance where chronographed values were referenced and also talked with ammo manufacturers and this has never come up. What I have noticed is that most published data (rather than test results) and factory ammo use a 26" barrel. What I have read is that slugs take a hit by the inch. When using published data, I expect the 21" barrel on my Marlin 512 to be about 100 FPS slower. With all the shooting I do, I feel the loss is about 20 FPS per inch and that might have something to do with the tale.

The data for the Hammerhead with the 40-grains of Blue Dot listed 1475 FPS. So, my results did not surprise me.
Kaiser, you might find this interesting. In midweek, I decided to charge my chrony. When I rotated it up, I noticed that I had not removed the masking tape from a lens port. I tape these over when not in use to keep the spiders from setting up. They will shut it down in a heartbeat. I always use a light bar, and the G2 has a good one. I guess it had no problem seeing the shadow of the slug passing by!

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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by W.R.Buchanan »

Got a chance to reload the hulls I shot the other day. I have to say I was NOT impressed at all with the end result.

First the Rio Hulls have a slightly larger primer pocket than American hulls. Just about .002 larger which is enough that the primers just fall out. I put a 3/8"Ball Bearing in the hole and pressed on it with my Arbor Press and this closed the hole up enough so that the primers were a nice press fit. (This is an old Machinist trick for closing a hole that has gone oversize to get past an inspector)

I loaded these with 23.5 gr of Unique as I am trying to get the Velocity up to over 1200 fps.

I had to use a Wad guide to get the STI Sabots Gas Seals into the hulls and then push it down with a piece of 5/8 dowel.

Then came Roll Crimping. I got a new Roll Crimping tool for the Reloaders Network Store, made by a guy named Nick Ross. It has 4 pins and is EXCELLENT and does exactly what I have been looking for. A nice Rolled Top Edge with a nice Taper on the sides of the hull.

Unfortunately the Rio Hulls didn't like being re-crimped and would buckle at the top edge before the crimp got down to the top of the slug. They would go down to the previous crimp but no farther;

Here's a pic of one I did that looks really good, but it is about 1/8" too short and the slug slides around in the hull. If I tried to push it down farther it would buckle right at the top edge. I lost 4 out of 14 trying this.
It has to be done in one swipe.

So I have to try some more shooting with the higher Velocity in the A5 as the barrel on the Mossberg has a 3" chamber and I don't have any 3" hulls. Accuracy with that barrel was abysmal with everything I tried in it.

Life goes on!

Randy
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Re: Latest Slug Shooting

Post by Ranch Dog »

Boy, oh, boy! Your day was running at my norm. Slug loading is not for those without patience!

Reference your loose primer pockets, might want to look the BPI Primer Pocket Correction Tool.

I looked at the Lee slugs again, horrible, and did my final shooting with the STI Hammerhead. It doesn't look like much, but the load maintained the 50-yard MOA out to 100-yards (3.6). When I started this several years ago, that was all I was asking.

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I adjust it down from 40-grains to get a better seal at the 6-segmented star crimp. It was about 8º warmer, and there was no difference in the velocity. I used my TMT software to calculate the actual BC of the saboted slug from trajectory (.0951 BC). Tom Myers software offers the turret corrections to bring the POA to POI; I will load up and shoot that this week. Then all that remains is finding a test hog. Here is the ballistics from the software.

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I'm going to continue to use the Load-All II to deliver a 6-segmented star crimp with 3" hulls. At this point, I have 585 STI sabots left, which should be suitable for the remainder of my years. I hope there are hogs, a few whitetails, and a nilgai in the future for the 512 and this load.[hr][hr]
The Lee slugs, both 7/8 and 1 ounce, where horrible. Over about five years now, I have not been able to control them. If you look at the target board above, when shot at 50-yards, the 7/8 ounce slug could barely keep four on the cardboard backing and the 1 ounce, only two. So four slugs went downrange, path unknown, a very uncomfortable feeling. Yesterday, they cost me $200. Everything was going fine, but something small came loose from the component package at the shot and killed my Caldwell G2 Chrony. I'm a Lee lover but have never had any success; rifled or smoothbore with their slugs. The remaining slugs will be melted down and poured into Hammerheads.
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