SMLE Scout, 303 British

[Ranch Dog]

Yes I looked at the loads listed. I find it of interest that 4451 at the max is compressed. This is one of the things that intrigues me.

Yeap. One that I've experienced with published load data is that the maximums are too hot for my rifle. Extraction is tough and brass life is by the cartridge, a reload at best.

[Ranch Dog]

Alrighty, the smoke has settled and I'm going with 45.0-grains of Hodgdon's Hybrid-100V. Before I get there...

Off the bench with the trial of Varget, Varget with a filler, and Hybrid; I immediately had a near case separation at the head. The brass had been shot three times, so, this was to be the fourth time shot.



It doesn't seem to matter with case conditioning or brand of brass, that three loads seem to be the cycle for me. My gunsmith checked the headspace on the rifle during the rebuild and says it is as good as it gets and poor case life is just the nature of the beast. I suspect it is common as case extractors for the cartridge are very easy to find. So, I pulled everything and started, tossed the brass and started over.

As a note, the cut left a very definite line in my chamber, but I immediately poured water down the barrel and walked back up to the house. The water did keep the carbon soft and I was able to brush it out without leaving any ring on the chamber. What I've read is you have about a minute before that buildup starts working on the metal and the water will delay the process.

It was not the best day for shooting, but I needed to get this done. I had a quartering tailwind with significant gusts.



This is what it delivered.



In that I have shot so many evaluation loads, many cycles on the "fireform" first round, I've come to expect a 30% improvement with the next and subsequent cycles on the brass using the Collet die. That should run it below 1 MOA and with a calm wind probably .75 ~.90 MOA. Here is the load...

[Macd]

Having reviewed your reports and doing my own research I have decided to send my rifle to Epps Guns to have it re-chambered to 303 Epps. Here is a good review of the chambering. It requires the barrel be set back a thread and reamed. My cost is about C$300 including shipping and tax.

http://www.303british.com/id20.html

[larryw]

Hello RD & Mac, how's it going fella's?
Question for either / or. Since I was always, & still am, primarily a hand gun loader,
very limited long gun experience I won't call this a stupid question.
It concerns the " Case fill " product.
1-) Is there a specific amount of the stuff used in a given case, either by weight
or by size?
2-) Any benefit in handgun loads? (Fire breathing barn burners)

[Ranch Dog]

Having reviewed your reports and doing my own research I have decided to send my rifle to Epps Guns to have it re-chambered to 303 Epps. Here is a good review of the chambering. It requires the barrel be set back a thread and reamed. My cost is about C$300 including shipping and tax.

http://www.303british.com/id20.html

We have talked about it before and I think that would be the way to go if you are going to stick with it. I would have to poke around, but I would not mind getting it done to my Scout. In for a penny, in for a pound.

[Ranch Dog]

Hello RD & Mac, how's it going fella's?
Question for either / or. Since I was always, & still am, primarily a hand gun loader,
very limited long gun experience I won't call this a stupid question.
It concerns the " Case fill " product.
1-) Is there a specific amount of the stuff used in a given case, either by weight
or by size?
2-) Any benefit in handgun loads? (Fire breathing barn burners)

Personally, I'm a semi-auto pistol guy and have always found favor with loads that represent about an 86% case fill. I'm also a progressive loader and as you get above approximately 90% fill of the total case capacity, you will start losing it overboard as the shell plate rotates.

[Ranch Dog]

Have you pondered cartridge feed from the magazine? That seems like it is a problem with most of the forum posts I've searched, that and a lack of data for the cartridge. There is none on my Loaddata.com subscription.

[Macd]

Yes, I have looked at both the lack of load data as well as the magazine issue. I have an email into Epps on both matters. I suspect it will be work-up from 303B. Hopefully they will give guidance.

[Macd]

Found this data. Mat get book.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=aIezBg ... ps&f=false

[Ranch Dog]

I have the book, bought it with my first SMLE. His page on the website you referenced about covered the info on the Epps, but he does have load data covering about nine different powders.

The weird thing for my shooting is that I don't get anywhere near the velocity that is forecast. I figure my 20" barrel costs about 200 FPS. The loss is even greater than what QuickLoad calculates and it typically is very close to the actual I see on a wide range of rifles and loads. I do think that the pressure calculation in QL is very close. At least I see a similar inaccuracy with the velocity forecast with my MK5 scout so I know it is not just a specific rifle.

Honestly, I do not see three cycles on the brass as being a big thing.

I'm a "numbers" guy, here is how the rusty wheels squeak in the empty void of my mind...
In that I'm out in the brush with the rifle on a regular basis, I figure I will lose one case out of ten. That means three cycles on the brass will result in 149 loaded cartridges which means that the brass is 18½¢ a shot. If the Epps meant I could get 10 cycles on the brass, I doubt it, the cost of brass would drop to 7½¢ a shot. I doubt that I could beat the $300 cost of doing the rechamber in the US, honestly, it would probably cost more, but it would take 2857 shots to cover that amount. It looks like CH-4D is the only one left making a die set, they are $106. That's another 1009 shots before the breakeven point. So 3800+ shots to cover the work and dies. I think buying brass is a better deal. $300 worth of brass, chunking them after three cycles, would give me 1640 shots. I think that is more of a reasonable lifetime of shooting the rifle for me.

One of the most positive aspects of the rifle is the positive feed of cartridges. I would hate to change that especially having spent $290 on new spec 5 & 10-shot magazines.

If I wanted the rifle to equal the 308 Win the Epps might be a consideration, but I have a 308 and it is actually a scout rifle. That rifle, 20" barrel, spits out a 180-grain bullet at 2550 FPS.