Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

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Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by Ranch Dog »

Yesterday evening, I had hoped to have a pleasant session reloading the Bee. Unfortunately, right away I ran into some problems. Within a couple of strokes resizing cases, I noticed that the cases had a ragged cut on the shoulder, a steel pin had been caught between expander/brass and die body and scratched the die. I had had absolute hell getting the steel pins out of the 218 Bee cases, so I had very carefully looked into each case. Not only did one pin get past me, but two also did. This view is from the bottom of the die. The lower, first, pin is just above the case neck. The deeper pin is bent and also lodged in the die.

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The damage to the die is right above the shoulder. In that it is a cut into the die, it forms a dimple that sticks out away from the surface of the brass. It will scratch your skin. I'm not sure, yet the impact is with fit against the chamber's shoulder. It probably can be filled off.

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This pin is the culprit. It is tough to see the bend in the picture, but when held between thumb and finger, it is quite visible.

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After removing the pins, I went ahead and ran the remainder through the die as I need the ammunition. All have the burr.

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I called Lee today for a replacement die body and was told that this is not uncommon. I haven't been very happy with the SS pin cleaning, seems like a chore with all the pins, rinsing, wastewater, and drying. I'm going back to the old school way of doing my cleaning for now. The pins cost me an evening of reloading, doom on them.

Next up was a problem with the case necks. I had annealed the cases, and I suspect that the annealed brass isn't up to the spring in the Auto Drum. Then I started thinking about how annealing has not changed any of my brass life. A high-pressure rifle case is going to last ten cycles at most whether it has been annealed or not. The annealing is probably another step that I'm going to eliminate.

I was really %@*&$ off when I walked out of my reloading room last night.
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by Macd »

Can't say much about steel pins. I have always looked at them with a bit of skepticism. With regards to annealing I see the value in bringing all my case necks to the same degree of elasticity. I can feel the difference when I seat bullets between individual cases that have not been annealed versus those that have been annealed. I have no way of measuring the variation other than the resistance felt when seating the bullet.
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by Ranch Dog »

Macd wrote:Can't say much about steel pins. I have always looked at them with a bit of skepticism. With regards to annealing I see the value in bringing all my case necks to the same degree of elasticity. I can feel the difference when I seat bullets between individual cases that have not been annealed versus those that have been annealed. I have no way of measuring the variation other than the resistance felt when seating the bullet.
Yes, the elasticity that is felt goes on the "pro" side of the list for annealing.

What I did tonight was resize the brass and start over measuring the case mouth before and after. Everything went fine including the powder drop. I think that pin lodged across the neck of the die was causing the mouth to roll in. Case mouth ID on the cases resized tonight is .225", last night, .224". With the pin in the resizing die starting them in, I suspect that spring tension from the auto disk finished it.

Lee is a great outfit! The only charged me shipping for the replacement die body. Kind of feel bad about that, damage wasn't their fault.
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by GasGuzzler »

Ranch Dog wrote:Lee is a great outfit! The only charged me shipping for the replacement die body. Kind of feel bad about that, damage wasn't their fault.
They did that for me when I told them I was missing some parts from kits I got second hand.

Did you ever try wet tumbling without pins as suggested the last time washing was a hot topic? Probably would not be up to your standards but it's what I do now.
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by Ranch Dog »

GasGuzzler wrote:
Ranch Dog wrote:Lee is a great outfit! The only charged me shipping for the replacement die body. Kind of feel bad about that, damage wasn't their fault.
They did that for me when I told them I was missing some parts from kits I got second hand.
Yeah, great people!
GasGuzzler wrote:Did you ever try wet tumbling without pins as suggested the last time washing was a hot topic? Probably would not be up to your standards but it's what I do now.
I do wash my cases prior to decapping, only 30 minutes and without pins. It would probably take quite a bit of time to really clean them and possibly the need for a cleaning agent. I'm going to be cleaning some 32-20 Win cases over the weekend I will use my vibrator and walnut to see what I think.
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by Macd »

+1 on Lee customer service. They know how to treat the people who purchase their products.
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by klr »

Very interesting. I'd wondered if those pins could cause a problem. Are they magnetic? Some SS is, so that might be a quick way to check.

I've never annealed either. I usually work up a load or test out a new gun using the same 20 pieces of brass and then use fresh brass to load a bunch of the load I'm going to use. Then I put that gun away and rarely shoot it. ;)
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by RBHarter »

I ran my first bunch of 45 Colts cases probably 20 cycles trying these and those . I got into some Ruger loads then backs to warm Colts . Well I started to see some smoked cases with a 452-255 RNFP Lee so I thought maybe I wasn't pushing hard enough . Now I got to 1200 fps and still had case sooting . I annealed them contrary to all logic and advise . If I didn't lose them , those original 100 Win cases have over 50 cycles on them . I changed my sizing means and now back to steel dies , no more cases smoked save a little bit around the mouth and I'm yet to split a case .

This thread makes me glad I passed on the wet tumble process , especially with small cal cartridges .
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by bayou »

Talking about rethinking SS pin wet tumbling, I've been an avid wet tumbler for about 6 years using the Thumlers model B. For me, this process does produce impeccably clean and shiny brass with virtually no remaining traces of carbon or tarnish.

However, since I'm a casual weekend recreational shooter, this degree of clean just isn't necessary. So, lately I've been soaking/bathing the brass rather than tumbling. The results are more than sufficient for my needs. Not all carbon is removed from the interiors or the primer pockets. However, all carbon and most tarnish is removed from the exterior surfaces. Time for this process is 40 - 60 minutes.

Here's the recipe:

After decapping, cover the brass with hot water. Add 1 ounce of Persil detergent. Allow to soak for 20 - 30 minutes stirring from time to time. Drain this water off and rinse several times to remove all detergent. Then, cover with hot water a second time. Add 1 ounce of auto wash and wax, a couple ounces of lemon juice and a tablespoon of table salt. Allow to soak for 20 - 30 minutes stirring from time to time.

Drain off the water and the dry the brass quickly before any waterspotting can occur.

Works for me, anyway...
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Re: Rethinking Steel Pin Cleaning & Annealing

Post by Fyodor »

That process sounds like a lot more work that I do with the stainless pins: tumble 30 minutes (45 for black powder residue), rinse, dry.
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