30-30 (semi) Light Cast Loads

[mr surveyor]

Only having 7 years of re-loading experience and only 5-6 years reloading 30-30 I pretty well stuck to jacketed Sierra Pro Hunter and Rem Core-Lokt bullets. I've had the itch to shoot cast bullets but have heard all the horror stories about problems with cast and the Marlin micro-groove barrel. Mainly the talk about nasty leading if shooting anything much under .310 (cast) through the m-g barrel. Shortly after I started re-loading for the 30-30, a good friend with only a year or so of casting experience had also started casting what looks to be the LEE C309-150F bullets (using aluminum gas checks and LLA). He sent me home with about a dozen in a baggie to try, and they sat on my bench up until this week. I just didn't have the guts to try them.

Well, having had the cast 30-30 bullet itch and no one local that could help scratch it (my local buddy gave up on the 30-30 loads as he was experiencing problems of some sort) I let it rest until a couple of months ago. Between RD and all y'all here talking about the wonders of shooting cast in rifles, and RD's generous offering to help me get started, I decided to give is a go. My first three loads were some of the RD 170 gr WFN GC'd bullets that worked out better than I would have ever believed. I will have to finally decide on commercially available heavy weights in the near future, but still had those dozen light weight (actually weighed 142-143 gr with gc and lube) bullets. They all mic'd .309, under what I would consider "best", but I had to give them a try.

I loaded them all with 9.0 gr of Unique, CCI LR primers, with a COAL of 2.44 and went to the range with the Chrony. I put the first 5 rounds through the chrony - 1476 fps average, extreme spread of 8 fps, and a target group of 0.8" for 5 rounds or 0.65" best 4 of 5 rounds (this was only at 50 yards). I had my grandson shoot the rest and he had a decent looking 1.1" group. That trip was quite a surprise. I sent my buddy a picture of the target with the load and chrony data on it (our wives are both secretaries at the church), and the next day my wife came home with a baggie of 180 of his no longer needed "30-30" bullets - and two small bags of aluminum .30 cal gas checks. I'm thinking maybe the Laser Cast "non-checked" gas check design bullets would fit in. May be time to get a sizer to set gas checks.

Tonight, I loaded up 20 test rounds of the "light weights" with 9.3 gr of Unique to see what the difference might be, but I just don't know if these bullets will handle much over 1500 fps and the 9.0 - 9.3 gr load may actually be the niche. Not sure when the next available time slot for the range is, but I'm looking forward to tinkering with more cast in the old 336


jd

[akuser47]

I dont cast but i enjoy reading about it. I do load cast bullets in 45 cap and 357 magnum. I just buy mine. Great post

[GasGuzzler]

Want some of my Old School RD/Lee bullets to try?

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks for your offer GG. The bullets I sent him where the C311-170-RF which is the standard lube groove version of the TLC311-170-RF you have. The difference between the two is the "TL" with Lee to identify their Micro Bands for "Tumble Lubeing." The "C" is for the gas check. Just wanted to provide this info in the Mr. S is new to all of this. There was also a TLC311-165-RF that I designed for newer production Marlins and the Win M94.

If you look at my three designs, you might not think they are the same, but...

RD_3030_Win.jpg

... as viewed by your rifle's chamber, they are. The C311-170-RF used the best features of both so that one bullet fit a wider variety of the rifles than the other two.

I still think the best bullet and deal out there would be the Hunter Supply as offered through MidwayUSA. You would need the Lee .311 sizer die and gas checks, but even with that, it is still a good deal and to me, looks like a bullet that would work. the bullet would weigh just under 160-grains which is what the 30-30 Win was originally designed for. I'm going to buy some for grins with my next Midway order.

HS-311-154.jpg

[RBHarter]

I think I have some of the NOE 311-165 RD plain base here somewhere . These have the conventional grooves .

In 30-30 I've found IMR 4350 to be top shelf and checks to be unnecessary to reach full jacketed speeds .
Disclaimer I'm at 4100 ft with daily average humidity around 20% so your results may be different .

[mr surveyor]

Michael

Thanks for the mention of the Hunter Supply bullet. I haven't looked at that one, yet. If they have the GC base, and no GC installed, that's the same way the Laser Cast bullets would come. I don't mind getting a .311 sizer to install the GC's if the bullets come without. I do have a couple hundred or so aluminum .30 cal gas checks my buddy gave me, but I don't know if they would be problematic or not.

Anyhow, I still have 40-50 of the C311-170-RF bullets you sent, and they are destined to be loaded with one more step up with IMR 4895 before I see what IMR 4320 will do. Until I settle on a source of adequately performing commercial bullets in the 160-175 gr range, I have enough of those (slightly imperfect) 142gr +/- bullets my local friend sent me to keep me tinkering with various pistol powders for a couple of weeks.

It's somewhat refreshing to realize that I haven't bought more than 100 rounds of factory ammo, or loaded much more than 200-300 rounds of jacketed ammo, in the 7 years I've been reloading. The majority of those jacketed bullets I've loaded have been for the 30-30 as all of the handgun loads (.38spl, .357mag, .44mag, 9mm, .45acp) are with cast of some sort - if you consider that XTreme plated bullets as being cast (loaded in the bottom feeders only). So, the 30-30 has been the hold-out concerning cast bullets up until now. Similar to getting a new gun for Christmas

jd

[mr surveyor]

I just looked on the Midway site for the Hunters Supply .311 gas checked base bullet .... all I could find was the .311 bevel base bullet?


jd

never mind the above .... I followed Michael's link to the 154 gc based bullet. I did run across those while looking for 160's (or slightly above). Yep, those are priced well, and if the addition of gas checks will safely let me get into the 1950 - 2050 fps range accurately then it would most likely work out. The fact they are in the neighborhood of 15 BHN seems to be a bit troubling, but I could be overthinking (in my case wrong thinking) the details.

[Ranch Dog]

The other bullet I found for you is from Montana Bullet Works, the RCBS 82019, which looks very much like the Hunter Supply bullet. There are a couple of choices when ordering: I would choose the largest diameter (.310"), and MBW Heated Treated BHN 22 Alloy. The truth is many cast bullet shooters are shooting unnecessarily large bullets simply because they have tried a different size _/- (.001") like they would small changes in powder charges. With the tougher alloy of the MBW offering, my bet is that .310" will work. This bullet comes with a gas check but you don't have to buy the sizing die. Might be worth a 100 of them to try them.

MBW-RCBS-82019.jpg

[mr surveyor]

Thanks, Michael.

I was looking at their (Montana) offerings the other night, mainly at the 170 gr - .309 seems to be their largest dia, but I really think it would work as well as .310. The 150's didn't really catch my eye at the time since I was looking mainly for the proper 170+/- gr gc bullet. Now, I think it would be worth getting a 100 count test batch of both the 150's and the 170's of the Montana bullets. Looks like a good source to start.


jd

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, Michael.

I was looking at their (Montana) offerings the other night, mainly at the 170 gr - .309 seems to be their largest dia...

Yeah, the Lyman 311041 at .309" would make me choose the RCBS I mentioned above.

I've searched a lot of bullets and beyond this price point, they are the same as jacketed.