Problem 45 Colt cases
- Royce
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Problem 45 Colt cases
My suspicion is that these cases had been reloaded many times in the past. I got them in a batch of 500 rounds that came from a shooting range near Belton, Texas. I still have many more left. The ones marked "Western" measure 1.282" overall. This seems to be in specification as the industry standard maximum is 1.285".
Then I measured a new R-P case to see how it compared. It measures 1.272" overall. A full ten thousandth different.
I wonder if anyone here has a new Western case they could measure? Or any ideas how to keep this from happening again? Maybe trim all the Western cases to 1.270" and flare them? Or maybe give them a retirement party?
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- GasGuzzler
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
I grabbed a handful of my previously enjoyed cases that were GFL, Winchester, FC, and one I've never heard of. They were all 1.278"-1.282". They have been sized, de-capped, and cleaned but not trimmed. I refuse to trim straight wall revolver brass (for now).
From the photo I would say it hairline cracked upon firing the last time and the size die or flare die broke it. My novice suggestion is to merely take a close look at all your empty cases right now before they make their way too far in the process.
Use a pocket knife blade or something similar to feel around the neck area inside.
Others will likely have better advice.
From the photo I would say it hairline cracked upon firing the last time and the size die or flare die broke it. My novice suggestion is to merely take a close look at all your empty cases right now before they make their way too far in the process.
Use a pocket knife blade or something similar to feel around the neck area inside.
Others will likely have better advice.
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
I generally don't trim straight wall cases either. That said what you could do along with Gas' suggestion about inspecting is trim a few back to recommended trim to length and load a few and see if they crack. Trimming will also reveal cracks.
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- Royce
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
This is what I am leaning towards. I have perhaps 200 empties left in the bag with maybe 50 of them bearing the Western headstamp. Need to get the collet and shell holder so I can trim them. I measured a few more and all of the Western cases are at 1.280" or more while the others all seem to be in the 1.27X" range.
Several other Western cases reloaded without incident even though they are longer. Will watch them at the range to see if cracks happen when they are fired.
Several other Western cases reloaded without incident even though they are longer. Will watch them at the range to see if cracks happen when they are fired.
Ohio3Wheels wrote:I generally don't trim straight wall cases either. That said what you could do along with Gas' suggestion about inspecting is trim a few back to recommended trim to length and load a few and see if they crack. Trimming will also reveal cracks.
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
It has been my experience across many years of reloading that Winchester/WW brass tend to have necks that are slightly thinner than say Starline or Remington at least when it comes to straight wall cases. For me that's 357, 44 mag, 45 Colt, 38/55, 40/65 and 45/70. I don't own a tubing mic so that's based on careful observation with calibrated eye balls .
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
By its nature, 45 Colt brass is very thin when new. Case walls are .012" ((.460-.456)/2). I shoot a lot of it in my Rossi 92 and, yes, I check the case length and trim it when it exceeds the 1.285".
I don't think the overall length of the cartridge has anything to do with the wear. The actual SAAMI spec is 1.285 (-.020"). Letting the case grow beyond the maximum length will increase pressure at the shot.
The split more than likely was caused by the brass alloy itself, brand tend to be made with proprietary blends. Some are better than others. I feel that one of the weak links with the 45 Colt is the SAAMI pressures that are used. In most cases, you tend to get a lot of blowback around the case's mouth because pressures are so low. I can see this wearing cases. My 45 Colt is a Rossi 92, I shoot it at 35K PSI pressures. I use Winchester cases and see great case life.
Me, I think I would trim the brass back to the SAAMI min of 1.265" to see if this get back beyond the split. If so I would shoot it. The further you are back from the mouth, the thicker the brass is when you are dealing with the neck.
I don't think the overall length of the cartridge has anything to do with the wear. The actual SAAMI spec is 1.285 (-.020"). Letting the case grow beyond the maximum length will increase pressure at the shot.
The split more than likely was caused by the brass alloy itself, brand tend to be made with proprietary blends. Some are better than others. I feel that one of the weak links with the 45 Colt is the SAAMI pressures that are used. In most cases, you tend to get a lot of blowback around the case's mouth because pressures are so low. I can see this wearing cases. My 45 Colt is a Rossi 92, I shoot it at 35K PSI pressures. I use Winchester cases and see great case life.
Me, I think I would trim the brass back to the SAAMI min of 1.265" to see if this get back beyond the split. If so I would shoot it. The further you are back from the mouth, the thicker the brass is when you are dealing with the neck.
Michael
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
I'm going to work my own quote. I think modern brass is too stiff for the traditional 45 Colt pressures. Therein lies the case mouth sooting from the blowback. The brass alloy is too tough to immediately form the case to the cylinder or chamber walls. Instead, both the inside and outside of the case is exposed to combustion gases as the bullet obturates to the forcing cone or groove.Ranch Dog wrote:The split more than likely was caused by the brass alloy itself, brand tends to be made with proprietary blends. Some are better than others. I feel that one of the weak links with the 45 Colt is the SAAMI pressures that are used. In most cases, you tend to get a lot of blowback around the case's mouth because pressures are so low. I can see this wearing cases.
I had some very old 41 Long Colt cartridges that I pulled down about twenty years ago. Very similar in appearance and pressure as the 45 Long Colt. The brass on these cartridges was soft enough that once empty, you could pinch them closed.
Michael
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
I went back and inspected the loaded ammunition again but this time I used a magnifying glass and a bright light. I found two more of the Western marked cases split. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder back in the dispenser and loaded two good R-P cases. Surprisingly there were about 6 Western cased rounds that look perfect in every way.
Then I went through all the remaining empty cases. The R-P brass measured 1.265" and all was good. I checked overall length of the cases and they were all about 1.75" or less. Hmm. Found one FC marked case (Federal?) that was cracked almost halfway down one side so I pitched that one.
Then I got to thinking maybe the resizing process changed things. So I ran all of them through the decapping / sizing die. Now all the Western cases measured as much as 1.290"! All of the Western cases were at least 1.285".
Surprisingly so were most of the other brands. I have cases marked Winchester, W-W, WRA, and FC that all are over 1.280". Meanwhile all of the R-P cases were less than 1.275" after depriming and sizing.
I have a lot of trimming to do.
Then I went through all the remaining empty cases. The R-P brass measured 1.265" and all was good. I checked overall length of the cases and they were all about 1.75" or less. Hmm. Found one FC marked case (Federal?) that was cracked almost halfway down one side so I pitched that one.
Then I got to thinking maybe the resizing process changed things. So I ran all of them through the decapping / sizing die. Now all the Western cases measured as much as 1.290"! All of the Western cases were at least 1.285".
Surprisingly so were most of the other brands. I have cases marked Winchester, W-W, WRA, and FC that all are over 1.280". Meanwhile all of the R-P cases were less than 1.275" after depriming and sizing.
I have a lot of trimming to do.
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
Having lots of milage on assorted 45 Colts cases I'll offer some mildly unpopular opinion . I have some Win brass with 30+ cycles on it . Because of legal requirements for hunting I left mine at 1.280 .
At 20 cycles running into Ruger levels , mostly 9.5 gr of Unique with 265 gr RNFP and carbide dies over sizing cases for me , I got into the case smoking . I annealed them and and it was like having new brass .
The chambers on the Ruger BH were 1.295 , both of the Rossi M92's I had were 1.305 .
I changed to steel dies for the Ruger and only neck sized enough to get neck tension with a 45 ACP FCD gutted .
Other notes the Ruger chambers are .482 +0-.001 at the mouth with +.001-.002 taper to the head (bigger) . 92's were .484 at the mouth with a body dia that goes out to .494 . The FCD leaves the mouths .478 OD and bodies .482 . A little more for the Rossi cases .
Chamber dimensions from fired cases .
At 20 cycles running into Ruger levels , mostly 9.5 gr of Unique with 265 gr RNFP and carbide dies over sizing cases for me , I got into the case smoking . I annealed them and and it was like having new brass .
The chambers on the Ruger BH were 1.295 , both of the Rossi M92's I had were 1.305 .
I changed to steel dies for the Ruger and only neck sized enough to get neck tension with a 45 ACP FCD gutted .
Other notes the Ruger chambers are .482 +0-.001 at the mouth with +.001-.002 taper to the head (bigger) . 92's were .484 at the mouth with a body dia that goes out to .494 . The FCD leaves the mouths .478 OD and bodies .482 . A little more for the Rossi cases .
Chamber dimensions from fired cases .
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Re: Problem 45 Colt cases
So there's little hope for my Uberti Cimarron 'cause I ain't runnin' it at 35K PSI. It's a fat chamber/normal bore too (it seems) so ... back on topic (sorry).
Maybe I'll have to do a full inspection on my brass.
Maybe I'll have to do a full inspection on my brass.
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I've always been crazy but it's kept me from goin' insane.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from goin' insane.