7.63 Mauser Load Data

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Macd
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by Macd »

There are slight variations between the two cases. Whether they are enough to matter Is uncertain. Based upon my experience with Lee gauges they tend to be close to minimal case length so I would hold off on making a trimming decision until I shot and sized a few cases and checked if they stretch. If they have, take the longest one, load up a dummy round and as RB suggests drop it into the chamber. Give it a little push with your finger or the eraser end of a pencil and then point the pistol at the ceiling. If the round falls out easily then you are good to go.

For more information you may wish to consult the C.I.P. drawings for the two calibres.

RB is absolute correct regarding military surplus firearms. The realities of battlefield conditions and the production and economic pressures of war often lead to manufacturing tolerances that would be otherwise unacceptable. If you want a really finely made military surplus firearm buy one made in a country that was neutral.

Militaries do not reload so they don't care about the condition of spent brass. A perfect example of this is the Arisaka type 38 and 99, both which are real brass splitters.
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by AdmKeth »

As promised, a group photo of the 9 and the 7.63, and a few close-ups of the 7.63. I tried to capture any markings, especially the matching serial numbers. My photography skills leave much to be desired and I lack the pro lighting studio, so these are as good as they get.

I'll post close-ups of the Red 9 when I post questions related to that pistol.

7.63 and 9mm
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Note the damage to the stock...it was that way when the previous owner involuntarily parted with it, so that's real battle damage.

7.63 w/ Stock/Holster (Left Side)
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7.63 w/ Stock/Holster (Right Side)
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7.63 Right Side Stamp
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7.63 Muzzle Stamp & Serial
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7.63 Bolt Stamp & Serial
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7.63 Trigger Stamp
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7.63 Hammer & Frame Serial
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7.63 Under Muzzle Stamp
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by AdmKeth »

Macd wrote:There are slight variations between the two cases. Whether they are enough to matter Is uncertain. Based upon my experience with Lee gauges they tend to be close to minimal case length so I would hold off on making a trimming decision until I shot and sized a few cases and checked if they stretch. If they have, take the longest one, load up a dummy round and as RB suggests drop it into the chamber. Give it a little push with your finger or the eraser end of a pencil and then point the pistol at the ceiling. If the round falls out easily then you are good to go.
Got it...good methodology...thank you
Macd wrote: For more information you may wish to consult the C.I.P. drawings for the two calibres.
Eagerly investigating.
Macd wrote: RB is absolute correct regarding military surplus firearms. The realities of battlefield conditions and the production and economic pressures of war often lead to manufacturing tolerances that would be otherwise unacceptable. If you want a really finely made military surplus firearm buy one made in a country that was neutral.

Militaries do not reload so they don't care about the condition of spent brass. A perfect example of this is the Arisaka type 38 and 99, both which are real brass splitters.
Roger that
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by AdmKeth »

RBHarter wrote:Many use the chamber as a gauge for a plunk test . Basically drop a round in the chamber if it goes all the way down it's good to go ..... probably not really useful for a Luger . It should be noted that cartridges that fit a gauge will likely be well under sized in your pistol as most gauges are made to a minimum tolerance . If your example is say a first cut chamber war production from say late 1918 or mid 1943 on to June of 45' the chamber may be huge . Saving tooling often leads to a reamer being started as much as .001 over maximum design size and with a bottle neck letting it hit the shoulder short to make up for the fat . So fired cases might look like an improved cartridge . They were also , late in the wars , used down to one hone under minimum . So the fired brass might all but go in a standard size gauge especially if you happen to get a first cut gauge with a last cut chamber .
Excellent methodology
RBHarter wrote: My system for autos has kept me out of trouble .
I load 5 rounds per step in reasonable steps per the load window .
I try to do at least 5 steps but prefer 7-10 .
I shoot every load for group .
I stop and make notes when I get full cycle and lock open . I consider this a minimum load for that gun . Now at that point often the groups are what is expected for the gun .
If there is a clear trend in the groups closing for example I will go on up .
5 rounds is ideal here because if a magazine fed pistol is going to have feed issues it will be the last 3 rounds from the mag .
I have had 1 pistol that was continuing to close at a maximum load . Mostly all of the others were at their best 1 or 2 steps above above clean cycle .
I am soooo nicking and adopting this. </scribbles notes on clipboard>
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by Macd »

Very nice. The history that those two pistols represent is priceless.
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by AdmKeth »

Continuing to post to this topic since it's related to this specific pistol.

These tests are specifically to validate what is required to safely cycle the action on my 7.63 C96 Mauser.

Loaded five (5) rounds each with Unique:

5.0
5.2
5.4
5.6
5.8

Stopped there. It was really looking like the Unique was getting too close to the backside of the bullet. It really looked like the 6.0 grains would have started compressing the powder in the 7.63 case. Mind you, I am not going for maximum FPS, but for the experience and enjoyment of being able to fire this weapon. From my reading 5.5 grains and 1100 FPS ought to safely cycle without battering the bolt stop.

Once I get a feel for the performance, I may select a different powder (dad was a big fan of Red Dot, but that was 50+ years ago) with a narrower performance range. More research on this topic, for certain.

I will likely take these out to the local outdoor range and conduct some tests and record my results between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Note: I mis-seated one 5.8 grain round (cock-eyed by maybe 2 or 3 mm). I am contemplating one of three actions:

1) Unseat it using the Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Bullet Puller I ordered
2) Firing at the range and hoping for the best <== Least favorite option
3) Popping into whatever dud box the range has

I am 100% open to opinions. I have read posts on assorted and sundry forums where folks say "Just shoot it", and I can see the physics behind putting a slightly off round down range, but I am still apprehensive. Also, the crimping die is still inbound (arrives Tuesday), and I will try to see if that modifies the offset.

I would really appreciate other input on either using or responsibly discarding rounds.

Now to engineer some sort of brass catcher for both of these pistols, as I understand they shuck brass all over the range.
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by akuser47 »

Nice guns always liked the broomhandles.
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by RBHarter »

I will cut brass down until it's completely used up . IE 30-06' into 358 Win down to rimless 45 everything from S&W to GAP . So I would say pull it down and run it through the process again . I wouldn't sacrifice a case unless it became a habitually crooked seating case especially in a cartridge that tends to be hard to find or expensive or not readily made from something else .
Just a Red neck,White boy, Blue blood American.....
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by AdmKeth »

Macd wrote: - The bullet you are using apparently doesn't have a crimp groove. When setting seating depth the longest COL that fits the magazine, loads and cycles reliably may provide the best accuracy. Regardless I suggest a good tapered crimp or the use of a FCD from Lee if available. A semi's recoil may cause bullets to set back if they do not have enough neck tension.
Quick update:

The LEE PRECISION 30 Mau 7.62 TOK Factory Crimp Die arrived and I installed it on my LEE PRECISION Classic Turret Press (I absolutely love this press, especially after I upgraded the knobby handle to the Roller Handle!). I successfully lightly crimped the 20 rounds (5 rounds each of 5.2, 5.4, 5.6, and 5.8 grains of Unique behind an 85 grain Sierra RN FMJ.

As an aside, I had a badly seated round that I was apprehensive about firing, so I also ordered a bullet puller. After figuring out how to assemble and use the contraption, I successfully unseated the bullet (fortunately I had not crimped that one yet). As a curiosity test, I seated an unprimed unpowdered dummy round and very lightly crimped it. No amount of pounding would dislodge the bullet, so I am a firm believer in the crimp dies now.

I managed to locate a nearby indoor range that stated that I could shoot the C96s there. Once I have performed my tests on the rounds I have loaded, I shall post the results here...stay tuned!

Guys, thanks for answering my questions and providing much appreciated wit and wisdom. Now on to reloading and testing the Red 9.
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Re: 7.63 Mauser Load Data

Post by horseman »

I have no pertinent information as to history or loading for that caliber but want'ed to mention that I always thought those were the "coolest" looking pistols ever. Not very many firearms turn my crank these days, but that is one I would dearly love to have. Unfortunately they are well out of my price range, IF you could actually find one for sale. Your's looks to be in beautiful condition. Thanks for sharing.
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