OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

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OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby markt9 » 10 Sep 2018 13

Can someone tell me what the best overall length my 9mm reloads with this cast bullet would be? This is not the truncated cone; it's 2 Ogive, not perfect Round Nose

1.125 is what I plan to do my first batch at.

Please don't tell me to drop it in my barrel, I'd like these to work with other guns too, unless you have specific information that the Hi-Point 995ts has special COL needs. Please don't comment your opinions on how crummy a Hi-Point is either.

Bonus points if you can tell me what manual(s) have load data with COL for this mold's bullets.

Have you actually used THIS mold's bullets? I'm not talking about the TC truncated cone version or the other 2R 9mm mold Lee has, specifically the TL356-124-2R. Lee part number 90464 or 90465. It has several lube ribs.
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby akuser47 » 10 Sep 2018 16

I cant help on the col, but I will say this I have had my 995 carbine since they came out and I love it so accurate and reliable. I hope someone can help Ill be watching to see what I may learn as well +corn
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby GasGuzzler » 10 Sep 2018 17

Wow on your first post. I'll just say this place is different than most so just relax.
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby Macd » 11 Sep 2018 08

M&P 9, Lee TL356-124-2R sized to .356. Wheel weights with 3-5% added tin solder and water quenched. Lee Liquid Alox. O.A.L. 1.145. Manual used was Lee second edition for 124 grain lead and from the Vihtavouri website for a Rainer lead round nose. This is my standard IPSC bullet pushed by VV340 to an average of 1100 FPS. Max published load is 5.1 grains but I stay just below. I have also tried Bullseye, W231 and Clays. W231 gives me similar performance to VV340 at much less cost but Clays and Bullseye not so good. Of course YMMV.
This is my setup round so it is getting a bit worn but it shows the seating in the case.

9mm TL356-124-2R.jpg
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby RBHarter » 12 Sep 2018 08

I can only speak for the 945 . The 45 ACP version and say that if it fits in the magazine it feeds and shoots .

I would stick to loading it for your tightest shared chamber and start there . I presume your using LLA or PC . Most of the tumble lubes on pistol bullets will show up the small quantity of coverage and lead a little near the muzzle . Of course if the sister pistol needs a .357 for a correct .356 groove and the 995 has a .358 groove they aren't going to play well . I get a little wash the last 2-3" in the 45 using the .453 needed for the Smith 1917 but the .454 for the 45 ACP cylinder in the Blackhawk runs clean longer .

I'd say load for the pistol and see what the rifle says .
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby markt9 » 13 Sep 2018 20

[quote="Macd"]M&P 9, Lee TL356-124-2R sized to .356. Wheel weights with 3-5% added tin solder and water quenched. Lee Liquid Alox. O.A.L. 1.145. Manual used was Lee second edition for 124 grain lead and from the Vihtavouri website for a Rainer lead round nose. This is my standard IPSC bullet pushed by VV340 to an average of 1100 FPS. Max published load is 5.1 grains but I stay just below. I have also tried Bullseye, W231 and Clays. W231 gives me similar performance to VV340 at much less cost but Clays and Bullseye not so good. Of course YMMV.
This is my setup round so it is getting a bit worn but it shows the seating in the case.


Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm interested in how you came to 1.145 OAL for this bullet. I've been getting people saying 1.100 is what they use. Your picture seems that the case is up to the 2nd from last ring on the bottom of the bullet. Did any of the manuals suggest the 1.145 or is that the longest that would fit your mag and barrel? What guns have you used this in? Any of them a Hi-Point 995TS or S&W M&P Full Size pistol?
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby markt9 » 13 Sep 2018 20

20180912_222428.jpg

Here is a picture of one I loaded at 1.128 with 3.5 bullseye. I'm thinking of trying a few on a chronograph somtime in the next week. Anyone have any opinions?
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby markt9 » 13 Sep 2018 21

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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby Macd » 14 Sep 2018 15

The 1.145 is based upon the OAL of 1.142 (Vihtavouri Site) for the true round nose bullet by Rainer or the same profile Berry's RN at 124 grains. They are listed as being .565 in length. While these are plated bullets I used them to establish the starting length. The Lee bullet drops from my mold at an average of .590. With 5.0 grains of VV N340 I get at least 1100 FPS out of my 5 inch barrel M&P9. This load reliably cycles the pistol and is very accurate. I ran the bullet at an OAL of 1.128 in Quick Load and it only gave an increase of 20 FPS but drove pressure to 32K. I don't like being above a predicted pressure of 30k in the 9mm because it is an unforgiving caliber with respect to the variations that always creep into reloading such as case capacity, bullet length, powder lots and equipment tolerances. My pistol is still nice and tight after 10,000+ rounds. If I have a complaint it is the 124 grain bullet has some challenges with respect to the steel poppers used in IPSC. In another thread I describe my experimentation with respect to using 158 grain bullets. It is a work in progress but I am confident I will get there. BTW the 147 grain bullet is another option but it would require getting up to +P pressures. I have no experience with pistol calibers in rifles but a fair amount in SMG and machine pistols. These are definitely designed for higher pressure with such features as chambers that fully support case heads. I don't like comparing different specs such as SAAMI, CIP and NATO as the pressures are measured at different points. My experience tells me that the 9mm NATO cartridge really snaps a Browning High Power and it isn't at max. +P pressures. In an MP5 I couldn't tell the difference.
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Re: OAL for LEE TL356-124-2R Lead Mold on 995TS carbine

Postby markt9 » 18 Sep 2018 21

Standard disclaimer: I don't know what I'm doing, don't copy what I'm doing.

I got carried away the last couple days playing with a friend's QuickLOAD program. I had never used it before and since I never could find published data for this specific bullet it was comforting to use as a tool to help see if my COL was too short or dangerous. I filled 10 cases with water and set max case capacity overflow to 13.6 from 13.30, bullet length from .590 to .595, chose the ".356, 124, LEE 356-124-2R" bullet from 9mm Lugar (SAAMI). I used 4.25 as barrel length on the S&W M&P Full Size pistol and 16.5 for the Hi-Point 995TS. I used a Cartridge Length of 1.128 because I felt the 1.100 was too short, and I picked Alliant Bullseye at 3.9 grains to load. QuickLOAD predicted 1040fps on the pistol and 1292 on the carbine. I was still below the 4.0 that several people recommended so I loaded up 60 rounds and went out today with my chronograph. Pistol was 1019 min, 1067 max, 1049 average with Standard Deviation of 16.03. Carbine was 1156 min, 1367 max, averaging around 1280fps. I was surprised my averages were so close to the predicted speed. This load is well under 30,000 pressure according to QuickLOAD. I didn't shoot paper (yet) to see how accurate it was, but I was able to hit a steel target about 30 feet away as often as I do with a factory fmj round. The pistol let out clouds of smoke. Pleasantly the Hi-Point only had 1 failure to feed and no other issues with either gun.

I think I'm going to try using a brass rod and two shaft collars to measure how long of a COL to be very close to the "lands" in the barrels and then go with the shorter one. I've not found a local place that has the parts to build this cheap, so it might take a while for me to get back to this thread with my results. Here is a link to what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxFonKEjYWY "How To Accurately Determine Cartridge Overall length". I've seen a few different methods, but this one seems to make the most sense without disassembling a gun. (something I'm not good at).

So I'm comfortable with the 1.128 that I used for the moment, as there probably isn't a "correct" answer. I will probably try a bit shorter and a bit longer if the hi-point continues to give me a problem. The Hi-point is pretty new and it's been suggested to break it in a bit more before worrying about feeding problems.

I would still enjoy seeing a "published" C.O.L. for this specific bullet....
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