First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

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First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

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The NOE 680-500-HB CE1 arrived Tuesday afternoon, so yesterday, as soon as my morning chores were complete (kind of) I jumped right into casting slugs. I'm simple and just follow Al's instructions to the letter. I lubed the sprue plate, block and hollow base pins with NRA 50/50 stick wax (just a touch each). I smoked everything well with a Bic lighter.

Using a Lee pot, the mould dropped usable slugs immediately. Slugs are big, and they can get the mold warm. No problem, placing the closed blocks on a damp cloth for a few seconds releases the heat immediately. The slug on the right was hot but not sticking; I didn't have any of them stick.

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I did not need to pop the mould to release the slugs. My gloved hand could cut the sprue without effort. Once open, rotating the mould blocks clockwise from your view causes the hollow base pins to slide out, and the heavy slugs immediately depart the pins. Be sure you have the blocks positioned where you want the slugs to land.

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I have two column wads that I wanted to use out of many on hand. They both fit the height of the slug well, but the thin petals on Clay Buster SW250 slug wad are too thin for a tight fit.

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It looks like the Federal 12S3 is perfect with my Marlin 512.

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I'm going a different route with the alloy than most. So far the best 100-yards groups have come with Lightfield factory ammo and their super hard lead slug. 1.2XX MOA at 100-yards consistently. I cast these with the same alloy that I use for my hunting bullets, a 60/40 linotype/wheel weight mix and then water quenched them. They are 21 BHN as they sit now and will be 29 in 48 hours. I've never had a rifle bullet with this alloy mix fail and, and I doubt this projectile will either.

Diameter as cast was .682" and the weight with the 60/40 alloy is 490-grains.
Michael
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

Before dark, I went out and shot three of them with 25.5-grains of International and the Federal 12S3 wad. The wads collapsed into the tail feathers but despite that, at 50-yards they shot a 3" group. The hollow bases are now all filled with glue; I bumped the load up to 26-grains to help the hull fill and the crimp sealed up nice and tight.

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I'm dropping charges with the Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure and crimping the hull on the Load-All II.

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The crimp is being started by feel, but I missed it a bit mid-run and went too deep on the hull by itself.

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Pondered that for a bit and placed a BPI X12X Gas Seal in the priming well and it stops the press down stroke just perfect for the 3" hull crimp fold!

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Will see how these do today, if possible. We have had a front move through in the last few hours, winds are crazy and my food plots in view are flooded. Might actually be several days.
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

Two sample runs ready to go test once the cold wind lets up a bit; the difference in them being the hollow base filler. One set is hot glue filled and the other, Plastic Wood. The hulls were loaded with the Load-All II, I used the press set the 12S3 wad, nitro card, and slug. The X12X gas seal in the priming chamber is still making an awesome and effective stop for folding the star crimp.

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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

Well, this Lyman clone didn't fare well today. 50-yard results were good, but it displayed the same instability that the hollow base Lee slugs do.

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The 50-yard shots are identified and they other seven 100-yard shots are MOY (minute of yardstick).

The basic problem with the Lee, Lyman, and any other old school chucks of lead is that they are unstable. It is the relationship between CG (center of gravity) and CP (center of pressure) and no column wad or powder choice or filling the base is going to correct it. They were fine in their day for shooting a chunk of lead out to 50 yards maximum, but these designs cannot be taken seriously for anything beyond.

I'm banging my head against the wall because guys on a forum, not going to mention the cast bullet forum, keep telling me that these old geezer designs are stable because they roll on their nose or if they are held horizontally and then are dropped, they land on their nose. When talking projectiles, that is the classic sign of instability and that is why they are making the ever-increasing helical flight path down range. They cannot overcome the forward CG and with the CP aft of the CG, the is no correction possible back to a stable trajectory. Bunch of old geezers!

To prove my point, I took apart two Lightfield slugs and used the exact same load and the exact same point of aim I was using with the Lyman clone, and set the two Lightfield slugs through the same hole at 100-yards (marked on image). Why would you want to shoot these old hollow base designs? To me, it is not worth the time dropping lead.

Enough! I'm moving on to the newer ideas, full bore bullets, and Sabot Technologies product line.
Michael
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

The one thing that I remain amazed with, is the performance of the Marlin 512. The gun rags in its day said it could beat the new Savage right off the shelf for less money. All I know is that it can send the new style ammo through the same hole at 100-yards and that is very impressive to experience.
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by GasGuzzler »

Have you posted a picture of the slug that comes in the Lightfield ammo by itself?
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

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GasGuzzler wrote:Have you posted a picture of the slug that comes in the Lightfield ammo by itself?
I think so, but let's save some time!

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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by GasGuzzler »

I was just wondering what the shape of the lead itself is.
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

GasGuzzler wrote:I was just wondering what the shape of the lead itself is.
I think it is like my full-bore bullet with a short hollow base for the column wad to join. The sabot is separate, two halves that index with keys cast or swagged into the slug. The sabot halves are not pressed on; they are just two perfect fit halves held on with tape. It looks like Scotch tape to me, but it might be some kind of high tech tape. I've not found the halves left behind enroute to the target, just behind the backing on the berm. I've never recovered a slug, of any kind, they are deep in the berm.

Swede Nelson, of NOE, and I have some "high tech" ideas of our own. He is sending me a Priority Mail package of all his ideas and notes so that I can combine mine with his. The Sabot Technology options are expensive, but we both have some simple ideas for doing the same.
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Re: First Cast NOE 680-500-HB CE1

Post by Ranch Dog »

I haven't been able to get this old school design to work beyond 50-yards, for a lot of reasons, so I've dropped it from consideration.
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