NOE ~ Lee Slugs

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NOE ~ Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

I've been helping NOE with the TMT reloading software they are using and will soon be selling. Because of my recent work with the slug, Al mentioned that they are making the tooling for the Lyman shuttlecock for both the 12 Gauge and 410 bore because of the number of requests that they receive each year.

We started talking about the Lee slugs and the subject centered on the proven fact that the 7/8 ounce is more accurate than the 1 ounce and the reason for that. I laid out my simple wish list that the center cavity pin be slightly shorter and the skirt slightly thinner so that the center of pressure and gravity move forward. He said, "we'll do it." I sent him the drawings and I'm looking forward to the improved slug.
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Re: NOE ~ Lee Slugs

Post by daboone »

I've been helping NOE by buying some of their products. :roll: Other than that what did you just say? :oops: :lol: :lol:
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

When setting a job up for myself it must be Idiot Proof as well, as I am a bigger idiot than most people I know, and I prove it to myself everyday.
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Re: NOE ~ Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

daboone wrote:Other than that what did you just say? :oops: :lol: :lol:
NOE is going to offer an improved 1 ounce key drive slug.
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Re: NOE ~ Lee Slugs

Post by daboone »

Ok this.
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An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

When setting a job up for myself it must be Idiot Proof as well, as I am a bigger idiot than most people I know, and I prove it to myself everyday.
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Re: NOE ~ Lee Slugs

Post by Ranch Dog »

Yeah, that's it. Okay, slug exterior ballistic school is in session. daboone! Stop pulling horseman's ponytail and leave larryw alone!

Though similar in appearance, Lee's one-ounce slug has characteristics that make it less stable than their 7/8-ounce offering. The video below the picture will demonstrate it, but the picture shows exactly what causes the instability. The lighter slug has its center of pressure/lift and center of gravity ahead of the position where the radius of the slug's nose starts which creates stability. The larger slug doesn't, its aft of the radius which induces instability.

Image

Reference the drawings above; there is a black vertical line across each slug that indicates the point that the nose radius begins. The center of gravity (CG) of the slug is reflected by a circle/crosshair. Notice that the CG on the lighter slug is forward of the radius, but not on the heavier slug. Set them on their side and the light slug follows its center of gravity and rolls up on its nose. The heavier slug doesn't. So, disrupt the balance of the lighter slug and it centers, the heavier slug can't.

Any object propelled through the atmosphere creates pressure or lift (CL) and that force can be measured against the object's center of gravity. In the drawings, CL is indicated by a heavy blue vertical line. You cannot see it with the light slug because it is overlayed by the black line indicating that CL is collocated with the start of the nose radius. If the lighter slug has instability induced after it leaves the shotshell hull, CG takes over and tries to correct the issue which means that the slug stable.

The larger slugs CL is aft of the start of the nose radius so the bullet's balance (GC) cannot act to correct any instability. The instability will slowly and surely get worse. The large slug must depend on everything dealing with interior ballistics to be perfect because once it leaves the hull and barrel, it will only get worse. The video below is a simple demonstration of the CG of each slug in play.

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

There are high-speed camera videos that demonstrate the role CL plays in correcting or inducing stability. I like this one as it is shot from a smooth bore which makes the instability occur faster. I think the author doesn't get the details of the erratic flight but he has a great high-speed video of things getting worse.

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

My ideas for correcting the issue with the Lee slug is not through a total redesign of the mold, rather by replacing the hollow base/key pin. The pin would be slightly shorter and slightly wider. That would make put more weight in the nose and less towards the tail with the thinner skirt.

Image

The Key in the hollow base of the slug was designed to prevent the column wad from sticking to the slug. This is a great idea as caster/reloaders of the similar, but simpler forester slug design usually fill the hollow base with wax (which melts at the shot) and then they place a card wad between the base of the slug and the column wad, so the column wad doesn't stick to the slug (cat chasing its tail thing). Using just a card wad and not the wax ends up with the wad crammed up in the hollow base.

The Lee's key was a great idea, but the reality is that a card wad is still needed to prevent that column wad being forced up into either half. Where I would like to take my idea, is to make the Lee Key a "crosshair." The present thickness of the single key would be cut in half so that no additional weight is put within the skirt of the slug.

When I cropped the image of the Key from the instructions, I ran into an obstacle that brings my idea to a grinding halt. The Lee Key is patented and I don't think I should press the issue by pursuing this through NOE and I doubt Al would want to mess with it either knowing this. I doubt Lee would entertain the change to the Key pin as the cost of retooling the part would be huge.

So, school is out.
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Re: NOE ~ Lee Slugs

Post by daboone »

Thanks for the edi-ma-kation. I've never loaded any kind of slugs. Do have a Mec Sizemaster collecting dust. That is a great video and is interesting enough to get me loading again. Thank You for lighting another fire and costing me me more money to buy another toy!

I'm pretty sure it's his horse that has a ponytail :?: but we all know he is of the flower child generation. ;)

As far as Larry goes he's the only person left in town that puts up with me and my problems. That because I bring donuts for him and Lisa when they allow/permit me to visit. :roll:
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

When setting a job up for myself it must be Idiot Proof as well, as I am a bigger idiot than most people I know, and I prove it to myself everyday.
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