Load-All II & 3" Shells

The Load-All shot shell loader for the 12, 16, & 20 gauge.
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Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

I've been busy since Monday dawned, but late Sunday while closing up the reloading room, I stopped and pondered the 3" shotshell reloading with the LAII. 2¾" shell through the press is smooth, sure you must solve the component stack for 100% fill, no compression, with the specific components in the load recipe or some other method of calculation, but the actual manipulation of the press is against positive stops at all the stations. Things are different when you go out to 3". Here are the instructions for setting up the press.

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I don't know if the newer presses have the second hole drilled higher in the Square Tube Upright, but mine wasn't. Like a lot of my Lee tools, I'm not sure when I bought it, but it is the II and not the metal base Load-All. I carefully marked and drilled a new hole for the wad-guide screw as outlined in the instructions.

My trouble is with the second instruction. The problem with feeling it or not is that you are applying compression in a fold, so action against the hull is immediately set in motion, right or wrong. Shotshell loading is different than metallic in that if you don't like the finished product, you cannot knock it apart and start over, you've got a "frog" that must be shot, split open with a razor, or tossed in the pond. Even if you get it apart, which is time-consuming, the fold that started is the fold that you must live with as this press does not size or reshape the plastic or paper of the hull. With 3" hulls, I've been using a spacer of the appropriate length in the primer well to stop the actuation of the press. That's worked okay, but there is a bit of torque within the press as the hull is on one end and the primer well the other.

While dumping powder, I started looking at how it reaches a positive stop with 2¾ shells. It's simple; positive contact is made between the top of the wad guide against the Dies and Carrier Assembly. So, looking at the press with a completed, perfect 3" star crimp shell (2.655" per the SAAMI spec) at station #5, there was ⅛" of space between the carrier assembly and wad guide. I drilled a third hole in the square tube upright a ⅛" higher than the hole the instructions had me drill and put the press back together, and now the actuation reaches a complete stop without me guessing at the feel.

When I stop being giddy with excitement, I will run some hulls through the press and see what kind of shotshells are spit out.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by farmerjim »

I guess this will work for both 12 and 20 gauge.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

farmerjim wrote:I guess this will work for both 12 and 20 gauge.
I would bet it does.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:
farmerjim wrote:I guess this will work for both 12 and 20 gauge.
I would bet it does.
The best way to examine the fit would be if you had a 3" factory shotshell.

All this got me to thinking about the press and what it would take to make it adjustable to small hull length variations. The square tube would need a vertical slot about ⅝" in length. The wad guide would need a threaded pin through it, the treads being exposed on the backside of the square tube and secured with a 1/4" stop nut. The square tube could also have some lines pressed into the tube, spaced at ⅛" for reference. Being able to slide the wad guide, which stops the movement of the press, would allow small adjustments to the component stack.

If lengths other than 2¾" or 3" were used, the reloader would need to trim the appropriate amount from the hull to make the fold work out. The only adjustable hull trimmer I have found is the Creative Reloading Solutions Perfect Crimp Handy Trimmer. This trimmer is $50, but worth every penny. Maybe Lee could come up with a trimmer as well.

Finally, the Load-All II needs at one, maybe two, incremental increases in powder bushings. It comes up a bit short. The minimum jump would be from the current .198 ci bushing to .208.

Not criticizing the Lee Load-All II at, I love the press. I just see some small changes that would make a huge difference.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

Here is an image of the second, higher hole added. I know, first one wasn't too neat but done years ago. Heads up, that square tube is tough.

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One negative outcome of raising the Wad Guide the ⅛", the primer punch no longer knocks the primer out.

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I placed an order with Ballistic Products last night, one of the items I purchased was the Primer Pocket Conditioner., which looks like the tool from the Lee kit but it does tighten up the primer pocket against the anvil as well.[hr][hr]Dissecting Frogs

As I noted, I've never successfully pulled slug components from a hull, and the components inside are too valuable to send down range, so I sacrifice the hull (10¢), even though it was new. The stuff inside is worth $1.06.

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The powder alone is too valuable to me to lose with a bang as all my powder comes via UPS. I can't run to town and buy a pound. This is the Blue Dot from the Frogs, quite a pile.

Image[hr][hr]Princes
You don't know how pretty a picture this is to me. Five 3" STI Hammerhead Sabots loaded with 39.5-grains of Blue Dot with as perfect a 6-star crimp as you will see from any press. Better yet was that it was done with a full stroke of actuation, not "feel", with the Load-All II.

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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by RBHarter »

I understand saving the parts !

I wish the cutter tool were set up to only cut away the crimp . That way you could still save the case sometimes , but that's just my need to make 308 and assorted 45 autos out of 06' with split necks talking .
Just a Red neck,White boy, Blue blood American.....
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

RBHarter wrote:I understand saving the parts !

I wish the cutter tool were set up to only cut away the crimp . That way you could still save the case sometimes , but that's just my need to make 308 and assorted 45 autos out of 06' with split necks talking .
I understand, but removing the crimp would still cut ½" off, then another ½" has to be folded back over for the new star crimp. My Mossberg 600 will not function with 2½" shells. The 600 will spit them right out the bottom with pump actuation.

I've been able to unfold a star to get the components other than slugs out. Most of the time, the compression wad ends up damaged. Slugs are a bit different as they should be a super tight fit or that alone makes them not worth shooting. I've never been able to knock a slug out.

When I have to pull shot components, the hull (especially new hulls) are tough to load, once shot shells are easier. The Lee and MECs don't recondition the plastic hull during resizing at all. I've bought all kinds of skiving and other tools trying to decrease the failed crimp of a new hull, but nothing has worked save one tool. Creative Reloading Solutions' Ultimate Knockout and Ultimate Punch considers the plastic of the hull. The first tool, the Knockout, is for the MEC 600, I added one to my Slugger, but it takes at least three passes to iron out a new hull that has had the components pulled. It does an incredible job of completely resizing a shell and there is very little indication of star left in the plastic. The difference between the Knockout and the Punch is that the latter reconditions the primer pocket. That is not possible on the MEC 600.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

I ordered a new square tube, wad guides and the main spring from FS Reloading. I'm going to cut the ⅝" slot myself and find an appropriate square head threaded pin to put through the wad guide. I don't see this a big project to make the Load-All II capable of adjusting to hull lengths required for the component stack, yet allow the dies to reach a definite stop during actuation.

The component stack must leave ½" of space (12G) above the components, inorder to deliver a proper star crimp. If there is not ½" of empty space, nothing will work. If there is more, the hull can be trimmed, but this must be done before the components are added. Yep, more frogs, but all this takes a bit of consideration beforehand; hence, my work on a calculator1. I have an excellent trimmer, mentioned earlier in this topic will deliver to .0005" of what is needed. Ballistic Products has a Spin-N-Trim that should do the trick as well. That tool has been out of stock for at least three years. When I put my order in for more tools and 3" Cheddite Clear Hulls, I noticed that the trimmer was back in stock, so I bought one to test. They also have the SNT packaged with there Unload-It for a bit of saving. See, everyone ends up dealing with frogs.

1... It has been my experience that published load data has as good as a chance as it doesn't, for delivering the necessary component stack, yet allowing the space need for the crimp. Small variations in powder density alone can cause problems.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

I see more the need for a slot in the square tube vs. a hole. I wanted to compare the six vs. eight-star crimp, but it would not happen.

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The component stack was the same; 3" hull, STI Hammerhead Sabot, and 40-grains of Blue Dot. The 8-star crimp folded inward. It can only mean one thing: the fold of the 6-star crimp takes more room. That was quickly verified by measuring the decapitated heads of the frogs!

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There is a ⅛" difference between what the two crimps need to complete the fold.

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So, the resolve with the existing stack is not exactly comfortable; but the hull could be trimmed ⅛" shorter, and the die assembly dropped back down the next hole, but I will stick with the 6-star crimp. The slotted square tube would make this easier, but the hull would still need to be trimmed before starting.[hr][hr]I took a different track away from the fix as the Lee slug remains on my mind all the time. I think the only possibility of downrange, hunting performance is with Ballistics Performance's Helix Lightning Cushion Driver Wad (#020L078) acting as a sabot.

I've had a couple of the slug/wad combos sitting on top of my bench and I remember them being about ⅛" taller than the Hammberhead Sabot. I set one on top of the 40-grains of Blue Dot, its a fit and now I need to find out how it shoots!

Image[hr][hr]Oh, the depths I've descended into trying to find an accurate 100-yard slug load.
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Re: Load-All II & 3" Shells

Post by Ranch Dog »

Ranch Dog wrote:One negative outcome of raising the Wad Guide the ⅛," the primer punch no longer knocks the primer out.

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I was able to overcome the obstacle detailed above by inverting the LAII sizing ring, which raises the "Dissected Frog," and allows the primer to drop in the spent primer chamber. There, I can recover them.

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