Now I'm an Auto Drum Guy

[Ranch Dog]

To bad as I wanted to use the AD on my Dillon 450 because the old hand operated dillon measure is getting a bit worn.

That's my problem, I really want to use it as with the PPM on the turret I must take my hand off the ram to actuate and reset the charge handle. For this very short load session I actually dumped the case after the charge on the scale and then back in the case. The drops were very tight.

I did have another issue that I've experience every time I have used it. When I finished last night it was set for the load I wanted. When I started today, I had to totally reset the adjusting rod as it now was dropping 1 grain heavy. Not a tenth of a grain but one grain. I do not understand it and I've had it change up or down each time I've placed a previously set drum back in the unit. I don't see how that is possible but it is and it is not just the first drop, it is for as many drops as you want to check. I don't want to reset the durn thing each time I start again. My needs will be for the same charge with the same powder each time I use this a drum with a particular cartridge. The drum will be kept with the die set.

I also think the spring pressure inside the beast is too strong. More than one cycle, like if you check the charge, will bugger a prepped case. I'm using the collet die to size my fired 300 Savage cases, they have been annealed, and once is it or the case is lost. I did loose a couple of my 79¢ case over the course of trying to get it where I need it. For all the testing runs I've used 375 Win cases because they are thick and a strong column but it still chews them up. My charging dies are set perfectly. Those cases are worth $2.70 each but they are the heaviest walled cases I have.

Maybe this is the problem when you have had a product that has delivered for your needs for so long, the PPM that is. It is hard to live up to it. I was ready to throw in the towel last night, really, really frustrated but sleeping did help. The morning did start off wrong with the need to readjust and the bottomline is that I wanted to shoot yesterday but this kept me from it. Now we have frontal passage and my range is flooded so the delay is on the Auto Drum.

If it works out I still say that Lee needs to place a cc calibrated metering rod on the thing. The goofy setup is awful.

Hope I get to shoot tomorrow.

[daboone]

I certainly agree a cc rod would be an excellent improvement.

Thus far I've not experienced either of the other problems you noted. Changing drums have stayed consistent. Also no problems with any case mouths getting "buggered". I only use the AD on my progressive press. I wonder if you got a lemon?

IF you do decide to sell it let Horsemen have first dibs. He then will have to owe me one. I'll still want it if he doesn't. I just don't have an urgent need for another.

[horseman]

You go on ahead Dan, I'll not be looking for another Auto Drum in the near future not until I see some "improvement" in it from Lee. I think Lee was really close on this one, but just quite didn't finish the job. I agree with RD, that spring is waaaay stronger than I would think it needs to be. And why the heck couldn't Lee have put "positive" stops on the rotor knob AND on the rotor itself for fill and dump positions . It just reeks "almost good enough" to me. Like Ranch Dog I've also "rounded" the neck edges on a few 556 cases using the rifle charging die with this measure. Must be veeeery careful setting that one up.

[daboone]

Well I guess I got lucky. As soon as both Classic PM and the AD ( Auto Drum ) were released I ordered them. I could not be happier with both. I admit I collect PMs from different companies. I have never disliked 90% of Lee's products in fact found them to be excellent tools. I agree that the stops would be nice additions to the AD but RD suggestion of the CC rod, like the PPM's or the Classic's, added to the AD would be a VERY big improvement. However that may be counterproductive to their marketing strategy? I hope not. I do use the Classic's metered drum on my AD for small batches in fact I did it today for a run of 9x19 Mak.

The Classic PM is just or almost a "cast iron" improvement of the PPM. certainly the Classic PM's CC measurement rod is a BIG Improvement as far as my eyes are concerned and the "CLICK" 1/4 gran feel is as well. That feature is very similar to the Harrells measures. In fact I like the Lee Classic to the Harrells Schuetzen that I have. The Schuetzen just sits unused now days. $230 down the drain.

So Horseman I accept your decision! If RD's AD is somehow messed up ( and he decides to sell it) I will sent it back to Lee for them to fix.

The bottom line advantage of Lee's PMs for me is the visual CC adjustment. Fast, easy rapid adjustment.

[Ranch Dog]

While waiting for my hunter to come in I decided to load 10 more rounds for my 300 Savage but stop the process after each charge was dropped and then weigh charges from the cases.

722_AD_vs_PPM_03.jpg

The Auto Drum has no future on my bench with this kind of performance. A full grain of deviation within the string is awful. I'd rather drop with the Lee "Dipper" set, at least I'd know what was being dropped. Shoot me a PM daboone with your mailing address and you can have it as I'm done with it. I'll drop the other in my eBay box of stuff that I'm going to sell after hunting season.

This was a "reconditioned" unit, a full price customer's reject.

Only a couple of things didn't work for me, this joins the list:

• Auto Drum
• Ergo-Prime
• Zip Trim

[daboone]

What powder type are you using, ball, flake or extruded/stick?

Anything over .3 grains and I start wondering what's going on. That's what caused me to have 7 different kinds of PM s. Most of the time, for me it's me causing the problem. But then there is no perfect PM for every type of powder. Actually that is one of the reasons I have favorite powers. Because I have a powder measure that accurate for that powder and it gives me the results I require.

[daboone]

I found this video for adjustment of the Auto Drum.

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

[Ranch Dog]

What powder type are you using, ball, flake or extruded/stick?

It is on the stats chart; Varget.

Anything over .3 grains and I start wondering what's going on. That's what caused me to have 7 different kinds of PM s. Most of the time, for me it's me causing the problem. But then there is no perfect PM for every type of powder. Actually that is one of the reasons I have favorite powers. Because I have a powder measure that accurate for that powder and it gives me the results I require.

Well, the Perfect Powder Measure is dropping the Varget without issue so I will use it. What I might do is pull the other one out and try it. Like I said, both of these were reconditioned units so someone was not happy with them and I cannot return them.

I appreciate the video but it is very basic with the Lee instructions covering a lot more of the setup. The only point really offered is being consistent with the friction on the knob. Lee instructs to tight to eliminate leaks and this fellow offers tight, then loosen ¼ to ½ turn. I went ahead and prepped for another test, third time I've had to break the tape seals I place on the box, as I wanted to be sure I had considered this specific and there was also something else that I thought about last night while hog hunting.

[Ranch Dog]

One thing that I have noticed about the Auto Drum vs. the Perfect Powder Measure is the volume difference in capacity of their body housings. I've been working with a 3.02 cc load of Varget so by shutting off the hopper it is very easy to measure exactly how much space powder occupies once it falls out of the hopper.

With the 3.02 cc charge the PPM was taking just over one throw to empty but the Auto Drum three complete charges. I measured it. The PPM houses 3.27 cc and the Auto Drum 8.39 cc. I'm going to speculate that the Auto Drum might be packing powder in the housing as the Turret press is cycled through the various stations. Ideally you would want the shortest drop possible from the hopper into the metering chamber to prevent packing because flow from the hopper would be fairly consistent. Once the housing is full, all it can do is settle from any vibration it experiences. So with this load sample the metering chamber is taking the sample from the packed housing vs. the hopper. One housing is holding only one additional charge and the other three. The densities experienced in the drop are different. It is no different than taking a dipper sample. One being pushed just under the surface of the powder container, then up and out. The second being taken, tapped with a pencil, refilled and so on until you are certain it is packed full. The first method will always deliver a more consistent charge, not so with the second.

The only thing that I can think to minimize the effect that I'm describing is to:

• Secure the Drum Screw tight and then loosen ¼ to ½ half a turn as described in the video but not in the instructions.
• Use a powder baffle in the hopper to keep the flow from the hopper as consistent as possible.
• Be diligently consistent in how you cycle the ram of the press.

So with all this considered I started again. I dropped and dumped ten charges just to get a rhythm going and then measured the next ten.

722_AD_vs_PPM_04.jpg

No better than the best statistical run I've had yet but definitely better than the last. The last half of the run was spot on so that was encouraging. I think of everything in terms of being on the hunt and shooting at an animal. The 40.8 grain charge bothers the heck out of me because that is a flier. The miss doesn't bother me as much as the wound.[hr]
On to other things. In that I had the Auto Drum packaged for shipment, the metering rod of the large drum was screwed in from the 3.02 cc setting so that it would fit in the box. While hunting last night I had thought of probably the best way to adjust the metering using cc. With the drum installed and at mid rotation, screw in the metering rod until it stops against the interior of the housing. This is the point that it is at the minimum cc capacity that is mentioned in the Lee instructions. In the case of the large volume drum, 2.27 cc. For the 3.02 cc charge it needed to move .75 cc which is seven complete revolutions and 5 "facets". I hit the load spot on.[hr]
Back to the Perfect Powder Measure. I had changed it's metering rod to my 30-30 Win load (W748) of 2.00 cc. I rotated the rod out to 3.02 cc in order to run the housing capacity test with Varget. The first load dropped was at 41.5 grains as was the next five. I stopped taking an average there and went to the housing capacity check. The PPM is working hard to give me some love as it doesn't want to be replaced!

[horseman]

Interesting that you brought up the baffle RD. Some have advocated the use of a baffle in the AD but I really didn't see where it would help that much because of the amount of powder that is in the "body" below the hopper and the small hole into the body itself from the hopper. With that said, I did try a baffle (plastic one from I believe Titan) and trying it with ONE of the powders I was having trouble getting any real consistency with (not sure which one now) it (the baffle) did help. The Auto Drum worked really well with BE and 2400 when I tested those two. But with the inconsistencies I've had with others that SHOULD meter well with it (H335, CFE223 for instance) I just don't have much faith in it. My example of this would be using either of the aforementioned two, 25 gr. of CFE 223 on one day was almost perfect, two days later and increasing by 2 grains, the darn thing was all over the place. Same with H335, hence the lack of "trust" in the measure. I have NOT tried these with the baffle in place. I'll get a round tuit one of these days and report back to you.