pro AutoDisk double charging

[Fyodor]

Hi forum!

I got a total of 5 pro AutoDisks in use, and one of them shows some unwanted behaviour:

If the AutoDisk measures are used on a progressive press, the return is conducted by the chain, which pulls the lever back down, resetting the disk.

One of my measures does return by itself, immediately when I lower the ram. I had a nasty double charge of black powder yesterday, which spilled all over the press and everything. A case from the case feeder tipped over, and I had to remove it, so I had to lower the ram a bit, and complete the stroke after clearing. When I lowered the ram, 15 grains of black powder spilled all over the place.

Do you have an idea, how I can increase the friction in the measure, so it doesn't reset by gravity alone? I didn't find anything to adjust that.

[daboone]

There both chain and spring resets. It sound as though you are missing the spring in that Auto disk the one that "... does return by itself". It shouldn't do the return by itself, the spring should do that and do it with serious tension.
So unless I'm reading what you say incorrectly I say you're missing that spring.



The instruction state: "
If you are installing your measure on a single
station or turret type press, install
spring return lever and spring

[Ranch Dog]

If the AutoDisk measures are used on a progressive press, the return is conducted by the chain, which pulls the lever back down, resetting the disk.

Daboone, I think that he is using them on a progressive. My guess is the Pro 1000. I personally went to the spring, dropping the chain, on all three of my Load Masters. It totally eliminated similar, inconsistent, drops for me. It places the spring pressure on the up stroke but it isn't any different than the pressure sizing is experiencing. I doubt I would ever return to the chain.

[Fyodor]

@ daboone:
Michael's right, I use the measures on the pro1000.

I still prefer the chain as a reset. This particular problem would even be worse with the spring return setup.

The measure is pushed upwards by the case. When you lower the ram, it should stay in that position, until it is reset by the chain when the ram reaches its lowest point of travel. This will prevent any double charge, even if you return upward after you already lowered the ram half the way. Because the measure is reset at the lowest point of travel of the ram only.

This one measure shows a different behaviour: The meter will lower on the die as soon as I lower the ram. So it is fully reset, ready for another throw, even before the case has left the charging die! That was the problem this time. Because of a hangup somewhere else in the process, I couldn't raise the ram all the way, it was missing about 3/8 of an inch. So the case in station 1 was not fully resized, the bullet in station 3 was not fully seated, and no crimp applied. On all other setups this wouldn't be a problem: lower the ram just enough to clear the jam, and then fully raise it again, completing the stroke.

That was what I did yesterday. With the result of a double charge. On the first, incomplete, stroke, the measure did dump most of the powder in the case. Instead of staying in the position it was, it did lower with the ram, reset, and scoop another full load on top of the 7/8 load that already was in the case.

If the meter did not reset by itself (or even spring assisted), just at the lowest point of travel by the chain as designed, this would not have happened. And it didn't happen on other setups for other calibers in similar situations. That's why I didn't consider it to happen, and was very surprised by the spillage of about 15 grains of my precious black powder.

[daboone]

Someday I'll learn to read and even try to comprehend before I shoot off my keystrokes.

[Fyodor]

Maybe I need to write less wordy, and more to the point also... might be better to understand. Thanks for trying to help anyway!

And now, have a nice weekend... I'm off now, shooting two matches on the weekend. A CAS blackpowder match on Saturday, and a WildBunch match on Sunday.

[horseman]

I've not seen or heard of this before. Just a WAG, but is it possible that the case is "sticking" on the flaring insert and as you lower the shell plate it (the case) is bringing the insert down with it and "resetting" the measure. (not even sure if this is possible) If you're doing BP I'm guessing you're doing 45 colt and it is a bit of a long case.

[jloader]

I just got the LoadMaster a week ago or so and the powder load device got me concerned a bit once I took a closer look at the mechanics of it.
No, LoadMaster does not come with the spring, just the chain. And that makes sense, on the down stoke of the ram, the disk backs off just a little (as the case leaves the die are releases pressure on the powder disk lever). It stays 'half way' back in a dead zone, where the powder disk's hole is in between the die and powder funnel. Only when the ram is in bottom position, the chain pulls the disk back under the powder funnel so, in theory, unless you complete the down stroke and move the index to move the casing, the double charge should not occur.
In theory, that is. It worked just right for the small openings in the powder disks. If you are using large opening, as you are to drop 30 grn, than there is no 'dead zone' - the disk will partially reach out to the powder funnel and get a refill of powder. Just like it did in your case.

Now, if you put the spring on the powder measure, as soon as you lower the ram it will move the powder measure plate for a refill without indexing - a definite double charge even with small powder openings.

So for me, it's the chains baby!

[Steve]

I believe the chain is there for a safety. Not only to prevent double charge like you stated. It will also insure the disk returns to get a fresh load of powder. If the measure is jammed open the chain will break before the bottom of the stroke. It's hard to miss the chain breaking, I had a couple break because of a brain fart when I hooked it up. I use

Many moons ago when I did all my loading with a turret press I found the spring loaded measure stuck in the open position, so I had some uncharged cases.

[Ranch Dog]

Now, if you put the spring on the powder measure, as soon as you lower the ram it will move the powder measure plate for a refill without indexing - a definite double charge even with small powder openings.

True, but it would require that you overcome spring tension which would require that the ram stroke be interrupted and reversed. My experience is that all hell breaks loose anytime this takes place but I will keep your advise in mind.