BLL and an experimental mix

[Maximumbob54]

For those who have used these two lubes, are you of an opinion that both of them will run through a bullet feeder without gumming up the works?

I've read where guys got it to work but I never could. I can make it work with plated and coated but nothing lubed.

I have several varieties of the powder coat and epoxy coatings, but all this spray or shake and bake still adds time better spent reloading and shooting/hunting.

That depends on the end results. One of the reasons I started coating with epoxy or PC was so I could shoot pistol bullets with scrap alloy and not have to ever worry over leading. I could run range scrap alloy in .357 magnum and there would be nothing in the bore to clean after a single patch. Previous to that I had to add something to harden them and be sure to use the right lube and even then sometimes still have lead in the bore. And being able to dry tumble and bake without having to touch them may take a while for the oven to cook the finish but it's very little hands on time. I've never felt like investing in a Star lube sizer or similar but I but I can shake and bake a large volume easily as fast as than the Star with shake and bake and a Lee sizer. And when I want to change calibers it's a heck of a lot easier.

This part isn't directed at anyone in general:

What I don't get when the coatings subject comes up are the people that crow about how they never get leading in there guns so it's an answer in search of a problem or some such word spew. Yay for them. But for those of use that have a gun that's a pain due to overly tight throats, rough bores, don't feel the need to have multiple bullet diameters for multiple guns needs, tight chambers, or any other issues then coatings really simplify things. It's just another tool in the belt; it's not the ends all means all.

[62chevy]

[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

This is one way to speed things up powder coating. He uses a tumbler but I think it would be quicker with a good hard shaking then put on the racks for curring.

[Maximumbob54]

I'm sorry but that's some creative editing on his part. You can't have blotchy uneven coatings, dump them in the tray as such, then sprinkle more powder over the pile, and then end up with good bullets. I've done exactly that and it's a MESS. You end up with bullets glued together that if you can snap them apart you have a chunk on one and bare spot on the other. You get bullets glued to the rack and where the bullets rested on the rack leave grid lines. The final result are bullets that are very unevenly coated which during sizing you can feel the lead being displaced by the uneven spots in the coating, you get uneven flashing where it chips off at the edges where it left a puddle of coating that hardened, and they aren't accurate bullets by any means.

BUT...

I've preached on this many times in several forums now, stop trying to achieve the coating in one process and do it twice. It's the same as just about any other painting process in that you achieve better results by doing two or more thin coatings rather than trying to get a thick enough layer in one run. Whaaaa, but it takes twice as long. So what. Doing two thin coats means you add just enough powder to get a thin dusty layer which requires minimal tumbling, just dump them on the rack, bake, and repeat. Done right, the coating isn't thick enough that grid lines are visible, they hardly stick, where they do stick is covered in the second tumble, and because you aren't trying to set them each on end in little rows or freak out about them tipping over and another huge plus the bullets don't beat each other to death if they are a softer alloy then there is only minimal hands on time. You are limited more by your oven size or amount of racks. And the guys that go on about their Star sizer doing this faster are right only that if you must size them then they are also sized and lubed at the same time. But if you are doing the two thin coats then you get nice even coats that don't cause build-up issues and I'm finding a few of my molds allow them to be loaded and shot as cast and coated.

This is the result of a first tumble and bake:


I had to take a new picture since the previous pic had so much color contrast that it washed out the blue:


The meplat edges are still sharp despite being softer alloy, the coating is nice and even, the rack isn't covered in blue despite having baked thousands of bullets now, and you don't see grid lines or bare spots on any of the bullets. I don't use BB's in the shaking, they were shaken in a round Glad container for about half a minute or so, dumped in the tray, baked and repeat. Then they were sized in a Lee push through sizer at .358" which is the only real hands on time to speak of in the process.

Lee TL358-158SWC on the right:


This bullet once done in two thin coats is usually right around .360" with a variation of +/- .00005ish or so and as long as your chamber isn't overly tight can be loaded and shot as dropped and coated. Note how once again there is no flashing at the base and the coating is nice and even. I've pushed this as hard as I can find data in a Rossi R92's 16" barrel and there has never been any leading and the accuracy was as good as I'm capable of shooting which honestly is never as good as the gun is capable. There's no traditional lube so the only smoke is from the powder and primer, there's never any leading, bullets don't stick to each other or gum up the die during loading, and I don't worry about heat at the range causing issue with lube.

Off my soapbox now.

[62chevy]

I was hoping someone would review that video, Thanks Bob. He did say in one of the side bars that he had to shake the bullets after adding the extra powder.I lay my rifle bullets on their sides but stand the pistol bullets up. I have got to try the no BB method and see what I get.

[Maximumbob54]

At this point I'm not sure what I would do to improve my process. Something to speed up sizing would help but that's not strictly a part of the coating processing. But it does add up to the total beginning to end of the bullet so it really would help. But the coating itself seems to be as good as it's going to get.

Getting back to the BLL, I'm reading that some guys 2, 3, or even 4 coats. I do a single coat first, size, then a second. BLL is the first one that I can really feel the coating grease the bullet as it's sized in the die. I haven't measured any with a caliper but I'm not sure at what point enough coating will inhibit the bullet from feeding into the chamber or even seating.

I have a batch with 2 layers that's dry, a third drying, and I will add a forth to some of that third to see how much that adds. I will report back what the calipers have to say. It may be moot though if the lube coating smears down during seating. I don't know how tough it really is. Maybe seat a couple and pull them to see.

EDIT:

This may really be moot after all. I measured on with two coats and it said exactly .358" and one from three coatings said the exact same thing. It's either adding an immeasurable layer or adding more wet lube melts down the first layer instead of building onto it.

[62chevy]

The liquid wax is self cleaning so makes sense it does not add any thing new to its size.

[Maximumbob54]

The liquid wax is self cleaning so makes sense it does not add any thing new to its size.

Well, shoot. The can says it clear as day:



"Won't build up. Each new coat dissolves the old one."

Which also helps my other thought that after the third coating they are starting to feel sticky like they aren't drying. And the forth coating is worse. The wax isn't building up but the alox is. But now it's back to the reason I quit with LLA and even 45/45/10 because of the sticky build up.

I feel like I have my answer at least enough for me. Anyone else can draw their own conclusions. Two is enough and if it's not then a different lube is required.

[mikld]

When I first read about 45-45-10 a while back, I got pretty lazy and just mixed my slightly thinned alox with JPW. It worked...

[jloader]

Lots of great info on this thread... but I do have a question.
I'm making my own batch of 45/45/10.
As part of experimenting, I've been trying to figure out how much should I cook out of the JPW? I've left 2oz of the paste on medium heat for several minutes just to find several drops of it left in the melting jug. No it did not leak out.
On some blogs I've found suggestions to take the tub of JPW and reduce it to 8oz (half of the container).

What are your thoughts?

[62chevy]

I've seen some skip the cook off and just use equal amounts of JPW and Alox some add the mineral spirits and some don't. add your bullets and shake it up.